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Post by auraco on Mar 5, 2019 18:04:57 GMT
Uh, are railless really a problem? I've played against CG a couple of times now, and the railess haven't done much any of these times. Sure they'll kill a couple of reavers, but then again, so does anything else. Their short range means wind ravager can help control them, their spray 10 are also useless against a lot of stuff. If they don't aim they don't exactly kill doom reavers reliably, the scather is there but it has never prevented me from doing my thing, I'm currently 4/0 against CG using wolves (it was with Vlad2, but I could see Sorscha1 doing well here too). The only CG list where I wouldn't want to drop that is gearhart with crucible guard infantry.
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Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
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Post by Juris on Mar 5, 2019 22:07:22 GMT
Uh, are railless really a problem? I've played against CG a couple of times now, and the railess haven't done much any of these times. Sure they'll kill a couple of reavers, but then again, so does anything else. Their short range means wind ravager can help control them, their spray 10 are also useless against a lot of stuff. If they don't aim they don't exactly kill doom reavers reliably, the scather is there but it has never prevented me from doing my thing, I'm currently 4/0 against CG using wolves (it was with Vlad2, but I could see Sorscha1 doing well here too). The only CG list where I wouldn't want to drop that is gearhart with crucible guard infantry. I played a game against Sorscha1 Wolves of Winter recently. Railless Interceptors massacred the Doom Reavers. They are also immune to stationary so Sorscha cannot control them. The Koldun Lord is not good at preventing them from attacking because Command 9 is shorter than range 10 sprays, and because you have other ways to kill the Koldun Lords. Also, a Railless Interceptor has a 56% chance to force a tough check on a Doom Reaver with a spray. Given the volume of attack and damage rolls they can make, that is plenty good. However, under Syvestro's feat, that number goes to 80%. Sounds really effective to me. Railless Interceptors do seem like a problem for Sorscha1 from my perspective.
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Post by jonnyboy on Mar 5, 2019 22:20:29 GMT
Uh, are railless really a problem? I've played against CG a couple of times now, and the railess haven't done much any of these times. Sure they'll kill a couple of reavers, but then again, so does anything else. Their short range means wind ravager can help control them, their spray 10 are also useless against a lot of stuff. If they don't aim they don't exactly kill doom reavers reliably, the scather is there but it has never prevented me from doing my thing, I'm currently 4/0 against CG using wolves (it was with Vlad2, but I could see Sorscha1 doing well here too). The only CG list where I wouldn't want to drop that is gearhart with crucible guard infantry. I played a game against Sorscha1 Wolves of Winter recently. Railless Interceptors massacred the Doom Reavers. They are also immune to stationary so Sorscha cannot control them. The Koldun Lord is not good at preventing them from attacking because Command 9 is shorter than range 10 sprays, and because you have other ways to kill the Koldun Lords. Also, a Railless Interceptor has a 56% chance to force a tough check on a Doom Reaver with a spray. Given the volume of attack and damage rolls they can make, that is plenty good. However, under Syvestro's feat, that number goes to 80%. Sounds really effective to me. Railless Interceptors do seem like a problem for Sorscha1 from my perspective. how many railless interceptors are in a list usually? AC might be the way to go vs CG. Sand, reading more carefully for the 5th time i see that alexia2 is enemy models only. I was quite thoroughly enjoying the possible shenanigans of threatening 21" with 3 weapon Masters.
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Post by hocestbellum on Mar 5, 2019 22:24:43 GMT
At the end of the CID she had lost Soul Taker and gained Spectral Scavenger, which allows her to collect from friendlies. People are watching closely to see if it sticks!
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Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
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Post by Juris on Mar 5, 2019 22:25:13 GMT
I played a game against Sorscha1 Wolves of Winter recently. Railless Interceptors massacred the Doom Reavers. They are also immune to stationary so Sorscha cannot control them. The Koldun Lord is not good at preventing them from attacking because Command 9 is shorter than range 10 sprays, and because you have other ways to kill the Koldun Lords. Also, a Railless Interceptor has a 56% chance to force a tough check on a Doom Reaver with a spray. Given the volume of attack and damage rolls they can make, that is plenty good. However, under Syvestro's feat, that number goes to 80%. Sounds really effective to me. Railless Interceptors do seem like a problem for Sorscha1 from my perspective. how many railless interceptors are in a list usually? AC might be the way to go vs CG. Sand, reading more carefully for the 5th time i see that alexia2 is enemy models only. I was quite thoroughly enjoying the possible shenanigans of threatening 21" with 3 weapon Masters. It really depends upon the list. 0, 1, and 2 are all very common numbers. My current Syvestro list has 2 and it feels right.
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Post by auraco on Mar 5, 2019 22:32:52 GMT
56% to force of tough on a doom reaver is not exactly what I'd call reliable. Koldun lord's wind ravager is 9'' but the koldun lord is immune to cold so immune to the sprays when wind ravager is up, with concealment (which is easy to get with fog of war or a greylord cloud) that leaves pretty much only the main gun on the railless to kill the koldun lord.
It won't prevent the railless from killing reavers, but it can minimize the amount of reavers it kills and control where on the board it's going to be, that means it's a very good tool for zoning it and favoring the scenario play for wolves.
Granted I have only played Vlad2 wolves and not Sorscha1 wolves into crucible guard, but I found found it easy to play wide enough to make sure the sprays couldn't catch more than one or two reavers. The railless did kill some reavers, but not to a problematic level, reavers are going to die before they get there, it's a fact of life when playing wolves, but I still felt comfortable in the match up against Syvestro, and my feat had nothing to do with the railless, so I'm not sure Sorscha1 would have a problem either. Wolves tend to play very wide and spread across the board so sprays don't usually get too many guys. It's things like the storm troopers and the crucible guard infantry with casters like Gearhard that scares me the most about CG.
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Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
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Post by Juris on Mar 5, 2019 22:43:59 GMT
56% to force of tough on a doom reaver is not exactly what I'd call reliable. Koldun lord's wind ravager is 9'' but the koldun lord is immune to cold so immune to the sprays when wind ravager is up, with concealment (which is easy to get with fog of war or a greylord cloud) that leaves pretty much only the main gun on the railless to kill the koldun lord. It won't prevent the railless from killing reavers, but it can minimize the amount of reavers it kills and control where on the board it's going to be, that means it's a very good tool for zoning it and favoring the scenario play for wolves. Granted I have only played Vlad2 wolves and not Sorscha1 wolves into crucible guard, but I found found it easy to play wide enough to make sure the sprays couldn't catch more than one or two reavers. The railless did kill some reavers, but not to a problematic level, reavers are going to die before they get there, it's a fact of life when playing wolves, but I still felt comfortable in the match up against Syvestro, and my feat had nothing to do with the railless, so I'm not sure Sorscha1 would have a problem either. Wolves tend to play very wide and spread across the board so sprays don't usually get too many guys. It's things like the storm troopers and the crucible guard infantry with casters like Gearhard that scares me the most about CG. 56% has been fine in my experience, because I will typically get to make 6-10 attack/damage rolls in a Railless's activation against a swarm of enemy infantry. But, again, read the part where it's 80% because of Syvestro's feat. Also, they often do get to aim, and then things get nasty; that's an 81% chance to kill a Doom Reaver with an aiming Railless spray ( sans feat). Koldun Lords get shot by aiming DBR, punched or blown up by Trancers, or killed by channeled Stygians. Importantly, if they are screwing things up, they die. Syvestro has more tools than many factions to deal with them efficiently. If you have been playing Doom Reavers into Syvestro with battle engines and the Railless haven't been a terror, then honestly, your opponent has a lot of room to improve in their use of the battle engine. But again, the main thing in the Sorcha1 MU is that Sorscha can freeze infantry. She cannot freeze battle engines. So those Railless are going to do work turn in and turn out.
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Post by jonnyboy on Mar 5, 2019 23:09:48 GMT
At the end of the CID she had lost Soul Taker and gained Spectral Scavenger, which allows her to collect from friendlies. People are watching closely to see if it sticks! didnt know that,and now the dynamic update is out, life is great!
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Post by sand20go on Mar 5, 2019 23:10:28 GMT
+1 to Juris
That is why I did the math. 2 Strike Tankers and a Vlad2 feated Drakhun has a 70% chance acccording to buy or boost to one round a Railless. I think that is why if you are going the S1 route you look at how you can fine tune your other list to handle Huge base oriented lists. She is fine with one on the table that doesn't shoot (much). One rounded with Doomies and a Brittlefrost a Supreme guardian. But if they shoot and ESPECIALLY spray (Railess, the Circle BE, the ThunderChicken, probably the Fun Carriage) then I think you are going to be going uphill with doomies. That is why you have 2 lists....
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Post by Havock on Mar 5, 2019 23:13:33 GMT
I think S1 shines in matchups against other infantry lists, especially melee. Assuming they are not immune to cold/stationary.
Against a BE heavy list Z1 would have been better.
And from my limited play But is can probably confirm rhis) AC is probably as worse drop, Your average Syvestro list has no trouble controlling the average AC list. At least Doom Reavers can do this "if a bunch get through they will ruin your day"-thing.
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Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
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Post by Juris on Mar 5, 2019 23:19:34 GMT
I think S1 shines in matchups against other infantry lists, especially melee. Assuming they are not immune to cold/stationary. Against a BE heavy list Z1 would have been better. And from my limited play But is can probably confirm rhis) AC is probably as worse drop, Your average Syvestro list has no trouble controlling the average AC list. At least Doom Reavers can do this "if a bunch get through they will ruin your day"-thing. Vlad2 is good for that very reason. If a few (Shocktroopers or Doom Reavers, whatever) get through, they can kill a Railless, so the Syvestro player has to continually play keep away, which creates opportunity for the Vlad player.
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Post by jonnyboy on Mar 6, 2019 13:30:40 GMT
So the railless interceptors are a hard stop to doom reavers, is there a reason we think colossals in general are bad? Pow 12/14 weapon masters seem butter into giant targets.
Also alexia 2 is such a great value piece for S1/WoW now. S1 can bring their the Thrall accuracy up, adding to her threat potential. Koldun lords bring their hitting power up. Combined with FoW, you now have to hit doomies, fail a tough check, and kill at minimum 4 to start attrition work. Seems solid.
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Post by auraco on Mar 6, 2019 13:41:08 GMT
So the railless interceptors are a hard stop to doom reavers, is there a reason we think colossals in general are bad? Pow 12/14 weapon masters seem butter into giant targets. Also alexia 2 is such a great value piece for S1/WoW now. S1 can bring their the Thrall accuracy up, adding to her threat potential. Koldun lords bring their hitting power up. Combined with FoW, you now have to hit doomies, fail a tough check, and kill at minimum 4 to start attrition work. Seems solid. I think there are way harder stop to doom reavers in crucible guard, Juris disagrees with me. My experiences have been with Vlad2 not Sorscha1 tho. It's also very list dependent, just a railless by itself is fine in my opinion, but crucible guard can bring out a lot more shooting than that and you don't generally want wolves to play into too many guns.
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Post by smoothcriminal on Mar 6, 2019 15:48:04 GMT
Doomies aren't that vulnerable to sprays because they have no need to stay in b2b for bonuses. Spray or blast that kills only 1 model is a good trade for doomies.
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Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
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Post by Juris on Mar 7, 2019 21:22:40 GMT
So the railless interceptors are a hard stop to doom reavers, is there a reason we think colossals in general are bad? Pow 12/14 weapon masters seem butter into giant targets. Also alexia 2 is such a great value piece for S1/WoW now. S1 can bring their the Thrall accuracy up, adding to her threat potential. Koldun lords bring their hitting power up. Combined with FoW, you now have to hit doomies, fail a tough check, and kill at minimum 4 to start attrition work. Seems solid. I think there are way harder stop to doom reavers in crucible guard, Juris disagrees with me. My experiences have been with Vlad2 not Sorscha1 tho. It's also very list dependent, just a railless by itself is fine in my opinion, but crucible guard can bring out a lot more shooting than that and you don't generally want wolves to play into too many guns. To be fair, Auraco, it is certainly context dependent. In a game where Sorscha1 is running the Doom Reavers, she has an out against any infantry-based solution to kill Doom Reavers. She also dumpsters Rocketmen (high defense popsicles are still popsicles). If Zerkova1 is running the Doom Reavers, then Storm Troopers or CGI are likely more effective against Doom Reavers because they are more likely to be able to shoot outside of Zerkova's feat. In general, however, Railless Interceptors are not a pleasant sight for Doom Reavers. My point would primarily be that, whether there is worse on the table is context dependent, and doesn't change the fact that the Railless is generally bad for Doom Reavers.
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