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Post by Gamingdevil on Mar 1, 2019 9:06:21 GMT
voidsunEverything in Infernal Machines has victim stats, so Tharn with overtake and corpses will have a field day. They also steal all of your corpses. Bile Thralls will probably be a good target for the Well of Orboros or LotF, but could be useful indeed. Birds will still need to hit. It is indeed our only theme with easy access to shield guards, so that could be something, but it has no decent spot removal to threaten the LotF itself. Seethers will get stuck on your own models I fear. Sacrificial Pawn is not enough because you can't chain it, so you will need to have one target surrounded by other bodies so he can't place. All your bodies are cheap though, so could indeed be decent.
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Deller
Junior Strategist
I’m on a Boat
Posts: 605
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Post by Deller on Mar 1, 2019 13:27:26 GMT
I run into Tharn the same thing I run into everything else:
Cryx - Boaty McBoatface
Theme: Slaughter Fleet Raiders 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Skarre, Admiral of the Black Fleet - WJ: +27 - Satyxis Blood Priestess - PC: 0 - Kraken - PC: 36 (Battlegroup Points Used: 27) Axiara Wraithblade - PC: 0 General Gerlak Slaughterborn - PC: 0 Ragman - PC: 4 Scharde Dirge Seers - Leader & 2 Grunts: 6 Black Ogrun Ironmongers - Leader & 2 Grunts: 6 Blighted Trollkin Marauders - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15 - Jussika Bloodtongue - PC: 5 Bloodgorgers - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15 Bloodgorgers - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15
There are some things in Circle this list wants to dodge, mostly in Bones, but this has been fine into Iona’s nonsense. Skarre’s guns threaten 20” & the Kraken cannon Threatens 21”, and with boosted Damage, are fully capable of murdering an Armor 19 Lord of the Feast before he’s gone in. Ravagers are annoying, but manageable, especially when random tough checks start denying them kills.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Mar 1, 2019 13:53:14 GMT
I run into Tharn the same thing I run into everything else: Cryx - Boaty McBoatface Theme: Slaughter Fleet Raiders 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army Skarre, Admiral of the Black Fleet - WJ: +27 - Satyxis Blood Priestess - PC: 0 - Kraken - PC: 36 (Battlegroup Points Used: 27) Axiara Wraithblade - PC: 0 General Gerlak Slaughterborn - PC: 0 Ragman - PC: 4 Scharde Dirge Seers - Leader & 2 Grunts: 6 Black Ogrun Ironmongers - Leader & 2 Grunts: 6 Blighted Trollkin Marauders - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15 - Jussika Bloodtongue - PC: 5 Bloodgorgers - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15 Bloodgorgers - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15 There are some things in Circle this list wants to dodge, mostly in Bones, but this has been fine into Iona’s nonsense. Skarre’s guns threaten 20” & the Kraken cannon Threatens 21”, and with boosted Damage, are fully capable of murdering an Armor 19 Lord of the Feast before he’s gone in. Ravagers are annoying, but manageable, especially when random tough checks start denying them kills. What kind of builds are you facing with this? I played Skarre 3 SFR into Baldur 1 with a Well and a bunch of forests and it honestly wasn't even a match. Granted my list had slightly less bodies than you and no Ragman, because I have max Boarding Party and min Smog Belchers instead of your second unit of Bloodgorgers. Lord of the Feast took out half a Kraken, Well was Firetrucking me up from 14" away and spreading corpses and eventually the Ravagers arrive. Iona is a sledgehammer and I feel she is more manageable than a caster like Baldur who actually adds more tools to the list.
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Deller
Junior Strategist
I’m on a Boat
Posts: 605
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Post by Deller on Mar 2, 2019 0:23:55 GMT
I run into Tharn the same thing I run into everything else: Cryx - Boaty McBoatface Theme: Slaughter Fleet Raiders 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army Skarre, Admiral of the Black Fleet - WJ: +27 - Satyxis Blood Priestess - PC: 0 - Kraken - PC: 36 (Battlegroup Points Used: 27) Axiara Wraithblade - PC: 0 General Gerlak Slaughterborn - PC: 0 Ragman - PC: 4 Scharde Dirge Seers - Leader & 2 Grunts: 6 Black Ogrun Ironmongers - Leader & 2 Grunts: 6 Blighted Trollkin Marauders - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15 - Jussika Bloodtongue - PC: 5 Bloodgorgers - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15 Bloodgorgers - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15 There are some things in Circle this list wants to dodge, mostly in Bones, but this has been fine into Iona’s nonsense. Skarre’s guns threaten 20” & the Kraken cannon Threatens 21”, and with boosted Damage, are fully capable of murdering an Armor 19 Lord of the Feast before he’s gone in. Ravagers are annoying, but manageable, especially when random tough checks start denying them kills. What kind of builds are you facing with this? I played Skarre 3 SFR into Baldur 1 with a Well and a bunch of forests and it honestly wasn't even a match. Granted my list had slightly less bodies than you and no Ragman, because I have max Boarding Party and min Smog Belchers instead of your second unit of Bloodgorgers. Lord of the Feast took out half a Kraken, Well was Firetrucking me up from 14" away and spreading corpses and eventually the Ravagers arrive. Iona is a sledgehammer and I feel she is more manageable than a caster like Baldur who actually adds more tools to the list. IMO Boarding Party & Smogs aren’t great with the Kraken, & I don’t like Smogs with Skarre3 in general. Making a cloud wall is their greatest strength, and you lose out on it when you play 2 huge bases that can’t hide behind the clouds. The Kraken likes having more bodies to block things from charging it. If all LotF is doing is taking off half the Kraken’s HP, I consider it a win. The Kraken eats that guy basically for free in Melee, and once Lord is dead they’re going to struggle to put meaningful attacks into the Kraken. In many of my games Bloodgorgers kill nothing, all they do is run forwards and road block charge lanes to the Huge bases while being a pain in the ass to remove as the Marauder unit, Kraken, & Skarre do the heavy lifting. Opening formation usually looks like: Where: X = huge base O = Bloodgorgers Triangle = Marauders M = Iron Monger D = Dirge Seers Blood Priestess deploys with Skarre Ragman deploys with the Bloodgorger Unit furthest from the Kraken Gerlak tends to be my flag camper so he goes somewhere he can get onto a flag turn 2 Axiara tends to hand around Skarre, slight centrally, but also changes depending on where she needs to be for Scenario. I usually try to go second and swing for an early Scenario lead bottom of 2. There tends to always be about 2-3 waves of Trolls between my enemy & my huge bases. Tharn are a Melee Force, & they aren’t walking through the Trolls, they have to kill them. The only thing Tharn has that can ignore the Troll Wall is Lord of the Feast, and as good as Lord is, he’s not one rounding a healthy Kraken. Skarre does need to be careful of eating a Lord bullet, but a 1-2 camp should be enough to keep her from outright dying, and if Lord tries to prey on her, it’s more likely she gets Guidence and cannons him off the table since she out threats him by a bit. It’s more likely that Lord kills 4-6 Trolls before dying than he does any work into Skarre or the Kraken, which yea it sucks, but it’s not the end of the world. The only Tharn lists that I’ve actually found challenging are Morvahna1 & Wurmwood. Morvahna because her Ravagers will eat through your army thanks to Mortality, so you need to spend a ton of time spacing models out so as to not just lose your entire screen to an Alpha. Wurmwood because he’s just a PitA in general, although I find WW much easier to deal with in DevHost than Bones since he isn’t bringing Geomancy.list to Stranglehold the Kraken forever.
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Post by gedditoffme on Mar 2, 2019 11:11:34 GMT
Lord of the Feast took out half a Kraken, Well was Firetrucking me up from 14" away and spreading corpses and eventually the Ravagers arrive. Iona is a sledgehammer and I feel she is more manageable than a caster like Baldur who actually adds more tools to the list. Just wondering how lotf half killed a kraken? He starts at 2d6-3 damage and goes down from there. With Iona I can’t work it out. Trying to calibrate my own views on arm skew vs Tharn, wouldn’t have tipped a kraken had much to worry about
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Growl
Junior Strategist
Posts: 496
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Post by Growl on Mar 2, 2019 21:02:56 GMT
The one guy I’ve played before has been using Moshar, who is complete douche. Between making pillars that the LotF can assault charge to get places, and the spell he has that allows him to switch places with a warrior model and then shoot his sprays and spells, it is hard to defend against. He ambushes some girls in during the game to get sneaky positions on my guys with Moshar, and uses some Hound that reduces everyone’s Def for easier hitting.
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Post by custardboy on Mar 4, 2019 6:55:27 GMT
Lord of the Feast took out half a Kraken, Well was Firetrucking me up from 14" away and spreading corpses and eventually the Ravagers arrive. Iona is a sledgehammer and I feel she is more manageable than a caster like Baldur who actually adds more tools to the list. Just wondering how lotf half killed a kraken? He starts at 2d6-3 damage and goes down from there. With Iona I can’t work it out. Trying to calibrate my own views on arm skew vs Tharn, wouldn’t have tipped a kraken had much to worry about If he gets a damage buff (a couple of casters can do this), he averages about 34 damage vs an arm 19 target. He can kill casters with an armour buff through full camp, if he takes out half a colossal and a few dudes, you're doing ok. Nobody is claiming he's at all balanced.
Cryx is in quite a decent place in dealing with Tharn. One of their weaknesses is lack of spell defence, and they also can provide a decent number of souls. You probably have to consider in in list construction though.
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Post by gedditoffme on Mar 4, 2019 7:21:13 GMT
Just wondering how lotf half killed a kraken? He starts at 2d6-3 damage and goes down from there. With Iona I can’t work it out. Trying to calibrate my own views on arm skew vs Tharn, wouldn’t have tipped a kraken had much to worry about If he gets a damage buff (a couple of casters can do this), he averages about 34 damage vs an arm 19 target. He can kill casters with an armour buff through full camp, if he takes out half a colossal and a few dudes, you're doing ok. Nobody is claiming he's at all balanced.
Cryx is in quite a decent place in dealing with Tharn. One of their weaknesses is lack of spell defence, and they also can provide a decent number of souls. You probably have to consider in in list construction though.
How is he getting 34 damage though? Taking Storm Rager (which Iona doesn’t have, but +2 str is a good baseline buff) and 3 corpses gets him to pow18 on first hit. Buying 3 more attacks at arm 19 (assume roll 7s) does 6+5+4+3=18 dmg. Impressive but probably crippling a heavy at best. Struggling to work out how people are getting him to double this damage.
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Post by custardboy on Mar 4, 2019 10:36:19 GMT
If he gets a damage buff (a couple of casters can do this), he averages about 34 damage vs an arm 19 target. He can kill casters with an armour buff through full camp, if he takes out half a colossal and a few dudes, you're doing ok. Nobody is claiming he's at all balanced.
Cryx is in quite a decent place in dealing with Tharn. One of their weaknesses is lack of spell defence, and they also can provide a decent number of souls. You probably have to consider in in list construction though.
How is he getting 34 damage though? Taking Storm Rager (which Iona doesn’t have, but +2 str is a good baseline buff) and 3 corpses gets him to pow18 on first hit. Buying 3 more attacks at arm 19 (assume roll 7s) does 6+5+4+3=18 dmg. Impressive but probably crippling a heavy at best. Struggling to work out how people are getting him to double this damage. Divine Inspiration from the caster attachment. He goes in with 3 corpses because of the Crocpot, then shooting a huge base he will definitely have some other random chump in his melee range. So thresh, boost damage on the Kraken, get that corpse back from the other chump, and buy 3 attacks on the Kraken. Boosted pow 17, then a 17,16,15 with Divine Inspiration is about 34 damage. With blessed too, if they are running a Pureblood (which they absolutely should).
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Deller
Junior Strategist
I’m on a Boat
Posts: 605
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Post by Deller on Mar 4, 2019 13:58:14 GMT
How is he getting 34 damage though? Taking Storm Rager (which Iona doesn’t have, but +2 str is a good baseline buff) and 3 corpses gets him to pow18 on first hit. Buying 3 more attacks at arm 19 (assume roll 7s) does 6+5+4+3=18 dmg. Impressive but probably crippling a heavy at best. Struggling to work out how people are getting him to double this damage. Divine Inspiration from the caster attachment. He goes in with 3 corpses because of the Crocpot, then shooting a huge base he will definitely have some other random chump in his melee range. So thresh, boost damage on the Kraken, get that corpse back from the other chump, and buy 3 attacks on the Kraken. Boosted pow 17, then a 17,16,15 with Divine Inspiration is about 34 damage. With blessed too, if they are running a Pureblood (which they absolutely should).
Why should they be running a Pureblood? Most DH battlegroups I see are Stalker + Ghettorix or Double Stalker. Just looking at the OTC lists conflictchamber.com/?event=610 there’s 31 Devourer’s Host lists. Only 9 Purebloods are at the event, and the overwhelming majority of them are being taken in Call of the Wild lists. The only DevHost lists bringing the Pureblood are Grayle lists. Lord of the Feast is only averaging 33 damage into a Kraken if he’s got Divine Inspiration & Iona Feat on him. With DI he averages a 13 on the boost, & 9s on the Nonboosted attacks. The boosted Damage roll & first buy hit at dice -1, & the third & fourth Attacks are at dice -2 & -3 (remember he loses the strength buff from the corpse the moment he spends it). So yes, he’ll hit the Kraken for a little over half it’s health with the help of a very squishy 4 point solo, getting fully loaded on Corpses from a 5 point Unit, & a caster feat. So yes, the Circle player can more than half kill our Colossal with 15 points of model investment & a caster feat. Anyone who isn’t Iona is at best averaging 29 damage with 2 strength swings like Mortality, Stone Skin, or Storm Rager. So yes, if my opponent wants to invest Lord to chunk my Kraken to half HP & kill a dude or two, I’m 100% okay with that. The Kraken will gladly 1 shot the now Armor 19 Iona feated Lord, & Fire it’s kill shot into something juicy (maybe Iona if I can see her since she was nice enough to stand within 14” of Lord). A Gang Fightered Kraken hits on 4s, needs 6s to one shot. Seems likely. I’ll then walk my Iron Mongers over and heal 3d3 + 3 of the Damage since you can’t Grevious Wounds a Colossal. Maybe I was even lucky enough to be within 4” of my objective when my opponent went for this play for an extra d3 heal. In the Skarre3 game, LotF is better off hiding out in reserve and trying to 100% kill one of the Troll Units after the lines have engaged turning off the recursion, making a scenario play to guarantee a zone clear since Trolls can’t tough him, or threatening Assassination on Skarre. Mindlessly Yoloing him into the Kraken is exactly what I want the circle player to do.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Mar 5, 2019 3:53:40 GMT
Iona's feat doesn't work on the lord, but Baldur's Stone Skin does. After LotF takes a good chunk from the Kraken, Brigid can also shoot him a bit and while I was dealing with the jam, Ghetorix was moving in.
I agree that Smog Belchers aren't the greatest with Skarre 3 because the clouds are less useful, but I like the control element they bring into lists that rely on B2B (Dwarves, ret/Gore4, trolls, etc.)
I'm not too fond of Ironmongers because they're only useful about half the time and it feels like too much support.
It's true that sometimes my list simply lacks bodies to efficiently attrition though. I do like having the BOBP as a secondary hard hitter that moves up behind a screen of trolls.
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Post by custardboy on Mar 5, 2019 6:46:06 GMT
Divine Inspiration from the caster attachment. He goes in with 3 corpses because of the Crocpot, then shooting a huge base he will definitely have some other random chump in his melee range. So thresh, boost damage on the Kraken, get that corpse back from the other chump, and buy 3 attacks on the Kraken. Boosted pow 17, then a 17,16,15 with Divine Inspiration is about 34 damage. With blessed too, if they are running a Pureblood (which they absolutely should).
Why should they be running a Pureblood? Most DH battlegroups I see are Stalker + Ghettorix or Double Stalker. Just looking at the OTC lists conflictchamber.com/?event=610 there’s 31 Devourer’s Host lists. Only 9 Purebloods are at the event, and the overwhelming majority of them are being taken in Call of the Wild lists. The only DevHost lists bringing the Pureblood are Grayle lists. Lord of the Feast is only averaging 33 damage into a Kraken if he’s got Divine Inspiration & Iona Feat on him. With DI he averages a 13 on the boost, & 9s on the Nonboosted attacks. The boosted Damage roll & first buy hit at dice -1, & the third & fourth Attacks are at dice -2 & -3 (remember he loses the strength buff from the corpse the moment he spends it). So yes, he’ll hit the Kraken for a little over half it’s health with the help of a very squishy 4 point solo, getting fully loaded on Corpses from a 5 point Unit, & a caster feat. So yes, the Circle player can more than half kill our Colossal with 15 points of model investment & a caster feat. Anyone who isn’t Iona is at best averaging 29 damage with 2 strength swings like Mortality, Stone Skin, or Storm Rager. So yes, if my opponent wants to invest Lord to chunk my Kraken to half HP & kill a dude or two, I’m 100% okay with that. The Kraken will gladly 1 shot the now Armor 19 Iona feated Lord, & Fire it’s kill shot into something juicy (maybe Iona if I can see her since she was nice enough to stand within 14” of Lord). A Gang Fightered Kraken hits on 4s, needs 6s to one shot. Seems likely. I’ll then walk my Iron Mongers over and heal 3d3 + 3 of the Damage since you can’t Grevious Wounds a Colossal. Maybe I was even lucky enough to be within 4” of my objective when my opponent went for this play for an extra d3 heal. In the Skarre3 game, LotF is better off hiding out in reserve and trying to 100% kill one of the Troll Units after the lines have engaged turning off the recursion, making a scenario play to guarantee a zone clear since Trolls can’t tough him, or threatening Assassination on Skarre. Mindlessly Yoloing him into the Kraken is exactly what I want the circle player to do.
Yeah, my maths was off somewhere. Lord of the Feast isn't affected by Iona's feat and I wasn't meaning with her anyway, just with a normal +2 str buff he's at 29 damage, which is still a lot. Also I said you're doing well if all you lost was half the HP from the Kraken, obviously the LotF yolo'ing into it is a bad idea unless there's something to follow up or its already injured.
Tharn casters don't really want to commit their limited battlegroup and risk losing fury/transfer targets without good reason. If they were available, they'd probably run ranged beasts. The Pureblood provides a fantastic spray for clearing room for the tharn and spot removal without having to commit and likely die like Ghettorix or a Stalker, plus a handy animus for an army that would otherwise struggle with armour buffed targets. I've used Tharn a few times and have loved the Pureblood. Iona is so durable in the late game that I didn't end up worrying about Sprint or Spiny Growth until after those beasts would've committed and died anyway.
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Deller
Junior Strategist
I’m on a Boat
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Post by Deller on Mar 5, 2019 6:54:12 GMT
Iona's feat doesn't work on the lord, but Baldur's Stone Skin does. After LotF takes a good chunk from the Kraken, Brigid can also shoot him a bit and while I was dealing with the jam, Ghetorix was moving in. I agree that Smog Belchers aren't the greatest with Skarre 3 because the clouds are less useful, but I like the control element they bring into lists that rely on B2B (Dwarves, ret/Gore4, trolls, etc.) I'm not too fond of Ironmongers because they're only useful about half the time and it feels like too much support. It's true that sometimes my list simply lacks bodies to efficiently attrition though. I do like having the BOBP as a secondary hard hitter that moves up behind a screen of trolls. Brigid Shooting shouldn’t faze the Kraken at all, under Deceleration she’s Dice -11. Iron Mongers are always useful IMO. Into high defense they make the Kraken MAT 10, into constructs they’re effectively Bane Warriors, into guns that threaten the Kraken (like Judicator) their healing can give the Kraken an extra turn of survival, and if none of that is relevant they can at least be 5 Box Armor 17 Sucker! targets that heal the damage Skarre deals herself via Feat & Run 14” under Dash to contest/score. Personally my secondary hard hitter is Ragman. The trolls under Ragman hit almost as hard as Black Ogrun Boarding Party, but with significantly more Attacks.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Mar 5, 2019 7:40:16 GMT
Deller she took pot shot at a Preyed Kraken from behind a house, with a weapon master bow. Not that much, but it's free and with the LotF it was enough for a heavy to seriously threaten the Kraken. I always have trouble leveraging Ragman with infantry, though I do see your points. It would definitely be nice if the list attritioned better, so maybe I should give it a shot.
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zulk
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 3
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Post by zulk on Mar 6, 2019 12:12:34 GMT
Could this actually work?
Cryx Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Ghost Fleet
[Deneghra 2] Wraith Witch Deneghra [+28] - Deathripper [6] - Deathripper [6] - Deathripper [6] - Slayer [10] Captain Rengrave [0(5)] Hellslinger Phantom [0(7)] Blackbane's Ghost Raiders (max) [17] Revenant Crew of the Atramentous (min) [9] - Revenant Crew Rifleman (3) [6] Revenant Crew of the Atramentous (min) [9] - Revenant Crew Rifleman (2) [4] Wraith Engine [15] Wraith Engine [15]
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