cain
Junior Strategist
Posts: 243
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Post by cain on Jan 12, 2019 10:42:52 GMT
Results from the first yearly big europen con is in - Conquest with some of the top europen players, among them the patbot. In fridays 64-players master it was 2 -two- cygnar players. The Cygnar players finished 33th and 41th. The rating would have been even worse if not a lot of players behind them dropped ( the cygnar players played all their games). www.tiebreak.co.uk/conquest-2019/standingsIm still having fun with cygnar in causual play, but in tournaments im rather depressed. Seems like the new minions mrk.2 Cygnar is also gone from the results of top three on discount gaming website from tournaments after wtc. Anyone have any luck in tournaments ?
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jan 12, 2019 13:13:38 GMT
I'm having some luck... with Mercs
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cain
Junior Strategist
Posts: 243
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Post by cain on Jan 12, 2019 17:47:32 GMT
Ha. I have tons of mercs solo and units from the mrk.2 cygnar days. If i had more mercs jacks, i would have tried merc faction. The thememachine makes the switch expensive since you have to have multiple of units.
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cain
Junior Strategist
Posts: 243
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Post by cain on Jan 12, 2019 17:49:22 GMT
At the moment i would be hesitant to switch/buy into any other faction than the latest PP hotness new yearly faction. That seems to be what they are focusing on.
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Post by hocestbellum on Jan 12, 2019 19:58:42 GMT
Cygnar's time will come again. It depends how patient you are. Anything that goes through CID gets upwardly revised (except Ghost Fleet); Armoured Corps, Devourer's Host, Slaughter Fleet Raiders, Exemplar Interdiction and so on are all right up there now.
But Cygnar has been really suffering because you've not had a CID in longer than any other faction, and you've taken some big hits in Dynamic Updates. But who knows? Maybe your next CID is just round the corner.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jan 12, 2019 22:37:41 GMT
Cygnar's time will come again. It depends how patient you are. Anything that goes through CID gets upwardly revised (except Ghost Fleet); Armoured Corps, Devourer's Host, Slaughter Fleet Raiders, Exemplar Interdiction and so on are all right up there now. But Cygnar has been really suffering because you've not had a CID in longer than any other faction, and you've taken some big hits in Dynamic Updates. But who knows? Maybe your next CID is just round the corner. I don't think they will fit in another CID before Infernals, so mid year is probably the earliest anything might happen for Cygnar. Luckily I own enough mercs to keep me occupied until then
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Post by cygnarstronk on Jan 12, 2019 23:24:40 GMT
what did you expect we are the worst faction in the game, it's not even worth going to a tournament now
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Post by thebuoyancyofwater on Jan 13, 2019 12:16:25 GMT
Genuine question from a Khador player:
What's changed for Cygnar? Why are they struggling lately?
Honestly curious to know.
Cheers, Dave
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Post by darkangeldentist on Jan 13, 2019 13:22:01 GMT
Genuine question from a Khador player: What's changed for Cygnar? Why are they struggling lately? Honestly curious to know. Cheers, Dave I think the main problem is that almost nothing's changed save for a few nerfs whereas other factions have seen sometimes drastic overhauls of casters, units and jacks/beasts which almost always improve their competitiveness. (In the case of the beasts/jacks it's invariably combined with a points drop.) Another feature which invariably hurts Cygnar (going back through Mk2 and further) is that armour and box spam are back. Cygnar has expensive units and jacks, pays dearly for armour cracking and requires layered buffs usually to crack lots of armour. That can be done against 1 or 2 hard targets but it really struggles against an army of high armour multiple box models. Even Cryx managed it to a degree that caused grief with Gaspy3 9 slayers. There are a few casters that can crack armour pretty well but they aren't always popular and more often, just combine poorly with the themes. The biggest issue is the general malaise that shrouds Cygnar online and in conversation as there's very little positive that is said with competitive lists in mind. I know that I'm guilty of this with a thread titled "I want to talk about random jank" because I don't play much and can't see myself getting to any events so the only lists I'm thinking up are ones that I want to play just to see how they perform. My local opponents are few and infrequently available to play this system because other games are being played with more enthusiasm on top of other commitments. Nothing I put on the table is likely to be seen as helpful from a competitive stand-point because it's not up against tournament lists operated by competitive players.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jan 13, 2019 13:50:43 GMT
Genuine question from a Khador player: What's changed for Cygnar? Why are they struggling lately? Honestly curious to know. Cheers, Dave I started writing up a long list but I ended up making myself really depressed. a short summary is basically - A hostile meta (high arm medium infantry spam and lots of upkeep hate) - SR 18 making gunlines much weaker - nerfs across many pieces in faction - weak themes outside of Gravediggers - overcosted warjacks
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seul
Demo Gamer
Posts: 15
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Post by seul on Jan 13, 2019 17:54:52 GMT
I think your faction bias is coming through if you consider Cygnar to be the worst faction based on these results. I don't believe anyone thinks Cryx is doing badly, and they did worse. It more looks like: Circle, Skorne, Legion, PoM, and Crucible Guard did well and every other faction probably has an argument for not feeling well about their faction.
Looking at those results would you feel your faction would be better if it was: Khador: one 3 win, two 2 win, one 1 win players Cygnar: two 2 win players Cryx: 1 one win player Grymkin: one 3 win, three 2 win players Trolls: One 2 win player
Circle: one 5 win, four 3 win, one 3 win, two 2 win, one 1 win Crucible Guard: one 5 win, three 3 win, one 1 win Legion: two 4 win, one 3 win, one 2 win, one 1 win players Skorne: two 4 win, 4 three win, one 2 win, two 1 win players PoM: two 4 win, one 3 win, one 2 win players
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cain
Junior Strategist
Posts: 243
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Post by cain on Jan 13, 2019 20:51:54 GMT
Well this is not a single tournament. Ther are other tournament results out there who back the argument that cygnar is not in a good place. If you go to discount gaming overview of winner lists, there is not a top 3 finish from cygnar since august 2018. In Europe we also had the big clogcon tournament. www.tiebreak.co.uk/clogcon-masters/standingsOut of 54 players only 2 brought cygnar. Highest cygnar was then on 34th place You also as numbers from Wtc with a good number of cygnar players but where cygnar in results was one of the worst factions.
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Post by onijet01 on Jan 14, 2019 9:43:58 GMT
Personally i do not see nor do i feel cygnar is in any trouble. Looking at tourniment results of the upper 10% of player who can afford to travel to tourniments is expected.
Yet the data can be skewed to read anyway you would like. So that data can only be taken at a partial value once a personal interpretation is applied to it.
Honestly the largest issue facing Cygnar as a faction is "upper level" players stagnation. Upper level players are very stagnant and easy to predict. Their skill is precise and practiced, yet they stagnate on creative options choosing to play what they always have.
Disagree if anyone would like but answer these questions.
When was the last time you played a non meta list? How many games did you play? Did you play to win or learn? Do you do deep dives into actually funtional ideas? Why did you try the list? What was your perceived opponent when designing the list? What were your perceived short comes?
As an example: Im playing sons of the tempest. Ive played 15/150 games with my list. Ive played planning to lose in order to see what the list can do. I wanted to prove the viabillity of sons into both jack/beast heavy lists as a control piece. As well as show the devistating power theblist has into medium infantry lists (scenerio: attrition or assassination) My list weakness is huge based models. Generally i can in one turn remove 1 to 2 battle enjines (regularly) or one collossal/ gargantuan. But that is at range using up my feat.
My short comes as a player is using my feat to early trying out range my opponent. Ive fou d if i can hold my feat off i can do more assumming i can charge in with gunfighters for the alpha.
I know many on this forum will disagree with me but once you have decided something is bad you skew your playstyle and thinking to reflect that. It is an unconscious thing that we as humans do. I think a paradime shift in cygnar players is the only way for the faction to shine.
Cygnar no longer has auto pilot lists and thats its only weakness, in my oppinion its a strength
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cain
Junior Strategist
Posts: 243
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Post by cain on Jan 14, 2019 11:04:25 GMT
I'm very hesitant to agree that the best players are stagnant, and that some hidden gold can be found in the big cygnar catalouge.
What's good in the meta are usually pretty fast identified in my opinion.
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Post by mcdermott on Jan 14, 2019 16:09:30 GMT
Things that are good are fast identified. How you play against them or what you take to counter them generally takes months to figure out.
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