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Post by slaughtersun on Jan 3, 2019 13:10:25 GMT
If by "not be around long" you mean "i can still play the game as it is even if PP goes bankrupt/ stop supporting the game", i see no issue in having new minis...
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Post by jisidro on Jan 3, 2019 14:18:29 GMT
Who is even left at this point? Soles? Soles and Wilson. the two dogganm people we wanted to leave since the beginning of this horrible fiasco we now call mark III A fiasco after building mkI, MkII and the MKIII rebound. Surely they deserve a better review that that.
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shiver
Junior Strategist
Posts: 150
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Post by shiver on Jan 3, 2019 16:10:25 GMT
In my mind, no they do not deserve a better review than that. I think we forget the creative input that PP has had, like the McVey's (both husband and wife) and DC. It hasn't just been the Soles and Wilson show, and so far the only thing I have seen from them has been a trainwreck. Wilson is a very conceited DB of a person (i met him once, and it was...enough...) and soles just should never be allowed to interact with anyone.
Also, to earlier points, LoS Jaden, I'm not sure where you are getting the information that they will post Kemp's old position, but so far it isn't on the website that I have seen, and I haven't seen any of the other vacant leadership positions posted. If you have an inside track, let us know, by all means, but so far, no.
Isotope said it best. all of this happening makes me very, very skeptical of the future of WMH and I think it a completely fair and logical position to have. Yes, turnover in any industry is high, but typically, the further up the chain someone gets the less likely turnover is to happen. This is now 7 people in highly visible and senior positions that have left. I won't buy anything more than a 20.00 model (namely because the game is non-existent where im at) and because I really don't want to be left holding the bag if something happens. A few months, maybe I'll continue to rebuild and start some CG or something, but until then, I'm truly worried and I need to hear something from PP before I have any measure of faith in the stability of PP.
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Post by michael on Jan 3, 2019 16:19:18 GMT
In my mind, no they do not deserve a better review than that. I think we forget the creative input that PP has had, like the McVey's (both husband and wife) and DC. It hasn't just been the Soles and Wilson show, and so far the only thing I have seen from them has been a trainwreck. Wilson is a very conceited DB of a person (i met him once, and it was...enough...) and soles just should never be allowed to interact with anyone. Also, to earlier points, LoS Jaden, I'm not sure where you are getting the information that they will post Kemp's old position, but so far it isn't on the website that I have seen, and I haven't seen any of the other vacant leadership positions posted. If you have an inside track, let us know, by all means, but so far, no. Isotope said it best. all of this happening makes me very, very skeptical of the future of WMH and I think it a completely fair and logical position to have. Yes, turnover in any industry is high, but typically, the further up the chain someone gets the less likely turnover is to happen. This is now 7 people in highly visible and senior positions that have left. I won't buy anything more than a 20.00 model (namely because the game is non-existent where im at) and because I really don't want to be left holding the bag if something happens. A few months, maybe I'll continue to rebuild and start some CG or something, but until then, I'm truly worried and I need to hear something from PP before I have any measure of faith in the stability of PP. As someone who has actually repeatedly met and had various long discussions with both of the people you vilify: geez, dude. I think you’re holding a grudge. Chill. Stop grinding that axe, buddy. We get it; you don’t like them. I’m sure you have your reasons. But your laying of blame is...uh...not in touch with reality.
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Post by michael on Jan 3, 2019 16:28:01 GMT
Also, to add: there’s no “inside track.” It’s called “talking to people” or “being friends with various members of the highly approachable staff at Privateer”, usually as a result of actually meeting them at person at various conventions or whatnot.
Seriously, man. It’s not difficult. Put aside the random anonymous forum anger and righteous indignity, and go have lunch with one of these guys at a con sometime. All these swarming internet conspiracy theories will pretty quickly become transparently ridiculous.
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shiver
Junior Strategist
Posts: 150
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Post by shiver on Jan 3, 2019 16:50:46 GMT
Also, to add: there’s no “inside track.” It’s called “talking to people” or “being friends with various members of the highly approachable staff at Privateer”, usually as a result of actually meeting them at person at various conventions or whatnot. Seriously, man. It’s not difficult. Put aside the random anonymous forum anger and righteous indignity, and go have lunch with one of these guys at a con sometime. All these swarming internet conspiracy theories will pretty quickly become transparently ridiculous. ok, so I don't like them. If they're your friends, great. IDGAF. I don't think its a stretch to say that I am alone in my take on either one of them. (spoiler alert. I'm not) now, you can't say there is no such thing as an inside track. that's bullshit (kind of like a 90% conversion rate). I know for a fact there are many people in the community that get updates, news, and insights from people who work at PP. And as far as holding a grudge, I have a lot of stuff, like everyone else here does. I don't like it when two people almost singlehandedly destroy a game I love. Sure, it's their creation to destroy I guess (though let's not discount McVeys and DC, as well as the others who are no longer at pp who helped create it) but I sure as hell don't have to like it and I certainly don't like their public personas. Even pushing all of that aside, Even if they were super charismatic people and soles didn't automatically piss people off just be being within 15' of a keyboard (I mean, he is the PP equivalent of "don't you guys have phones") I'm not sure who else to lay this trainwreck of MKIII at? Who else should be held accountable for the massive and multiple failures of MKIII. You're saying that me, stating they are responsible for the trainwreck of MKIII (which is still not complete at this point) am out of touch with reality by holding the CEO and Lead product designer responsible for a shitty product launch. that's not out of touch with reality. that's holding leadership accountable for the quality of their work.
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Post by michael on Jan 3, 2019 17:11:41 GMT
Also, to add: there’s no “inside track.” It’s called “talking to people” or “being friends with various members of the highly approachable staff at Privateer”, usually as a result of actually meeting them at person at various conventions or whatnot. Seriously, man. It’s not difficult. Put aside the random anonymous forum anger and righteous indignity, and go have lunch with one of these guys at a con sometime. All these swarming internet conspiracy theories will pretty quickly become transparently ridiculous. ok, so I don't like them. If they're your friends, great. IDGAF. I don't think its a stretch to say that I am alone in my take on either one of them. (spoiler alert. I'm not) now, you can't say there is no such thing as an inside track. that's bullshit (kind of like a 90% conversion rate). I know for a fact there are many people in the community that get updates, news, and insights from people who work at PP. And as far as holding a grudge, I have a lot of stuff, like everyone else here does. I don't like it when two people almost singlehandedly destroy a game I love. Sure, it's their creation to destroy I guess (though let's not discount McVeys and DC, as well as the others who are no longer at pp who helped create it) but I sure as hell don't have to like it and I certainly don't like their public personas. Even pushing all of that aside, Even if they were super charismatic people and soles didn't automatically piss people off just be being within 15' of a keyboard (I mean, he is the PP equivalent of "don't you guys have phones") I'm not sure who else to lay this trainwreck of MKIII at? Who else should be held accountable for the massive and multiple failures of MKIII. You're saying that me, stating they are responsible for the trainwreck of MKIII (which is still not complete at this point) am out of touch with reality by holding the CEO and Lead product designer responsible for a shitty product launch. that's not out of touch with reality. that's holding leadership accountable for the quality of their work. Welp... that’s enough of “off the deep end” for me. Later!
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Post by jisidro on Jan 3, 2019 17:20:43 GMT
In a nutshell you believe WMH was built despite the leaders in charge of the project? That's hard to believe. I'm 100% not saying leadership are the only ones that deserve credit but they usually deserve some credit. At the very least they let the right guys do the work.
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Post by onijet01 on Jan 3, 2019 17:25:45 GMT
Shiver you need to calm down and think logically.
PP rushed mkiii yes but it was to appease players who for a minimum of 5 years kept asking for mkiii. Thats no diffrent in practice that all of AAA gaming studios rushing buggy games to market to appease players who want the next yearly instalment.
Blame for the mkiii fiasco lies just as much with players demands as it does developers lack of forsight. (Ruling fiasco).
You also may dislike Sole but youve offered no reason why outside of "just dont like him" so i will assume he beat you at your first meeting (whether it was a duel of whits, or in a game of warmahordes) and the damage to your ego left a deep scar.
Seriously if you do not like mkiii you can always retire until mk4 comes out in 6 years.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jan 3, 2019 17:30:47 GMT
Shiver you need to calm down and think logically. PP rushed mkiii yes but it was to appease players who for a minimum of 5 years kept asking for mkiii. Thats no diffrent in practice that all of AAA gaming studios rushing buggy games to market to appease players who want the next yearly instalment. Blame for the mkiii fiasco lies just as much with players demands as it does developers lack of forsight. (Ruling fiasco). You also may dislike Sole but youve offered no reason why outside of "just dont like him" so i will assume he beat you at your first meeting (whether it was a duel of whits, or in a game of warmahordes) and the damage to your ego left a deep scar. Seriously if you do not like mkiii you can always retire until mk4 comes out in 6 years. If we are drawing comparisons to video games, then PP should have had a public beta. Instead we got #3years.
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privvy
Junior Strategist
Formerly The Nomad on PP's forums
Posts: 317
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Post by privvy on Jan 3, 2019 17:32:42 GMT
If by "not be around long" you mean "i can still play the game as it is even if PP goes bankrupt/ stop supporting the game", i see no issue in having new minis... Agreed. While I doubt PP is closing shop any time soon, even if they did, I am part of plenty of gaming groups that play "dead" games. Like HeroScape, the community is still fairly huge with tournaments everywhere and tons of community involvement. The customs created, while I don't play customs, are also pretty in line with what Hasbro/WotC could have made, they're almost indistinguishable from the real game.
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Jan 3, 2019 17:39:50 GMT
If by "not be around long" you mean "i can still play the game as it is even if PP goes bankrupt/ stop supporting the game", i see no issue in having new minis... Exactly! People still play all those Specialist games from GW, not to mention the 9th Age community system for all those old Fantasy armies. But then again, I'm no stranger to buying minis from manufacturers that don't even have a game. It's gonna be fine guys!
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privvy
Junior Strategist
Formerly The Nomad on PP's forums
Posts: 317
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Post by privvy on Jan 3, 2019 18:26:19 GMT
From the Warmachine subreddit:
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Jan 3, 2019 18:59:25 GMT
About that part you put in bold... little bird told me that they are doing this.
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Post by slaughtersun on Jan 3, 2019 19:16:59 GMT
I dont get the whole mk3 is a shambling mess of a ruin... Even at launch the game was more balanced than mk2 ever was... sure there were some outliers but there are always things that aren't perfect: for each una2 or karchev spam I can show you Haley1,2 and Denny 1, 2 or Saeryn. For every ghost fleet i can give you Machinations of Shadows or EE or Body and Soul...PP could have tested the game for 5 years and still they would have missed something. People may or may not agree with the direction that the designers have for the game (themes) but are always free to ply without them...or even play mk2 if it suits them. just don't say things that arent real... it says more about people ghan it does about PP.
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