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Post by Trollock on Jun 12, 2019 6:27:33 GMT
Read a couple of reports and this seems really brutal. Are you a much more competitive player than the rest of your meta? Are they not trying to adapt at all? 30-1 seems like it would start to get boring
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Post by chrisbatson on Jun 13, 2019 1:50:05 GMT
Lol, i think we all try and be competitive, but as far as games played per week, I am low man on the totem pole there and only get like 1 game a week. I think based on that and that I cant ever play in tourney's, that i'm not worth adpating against. Its all dealing with Tharn and one helluva minions players and I pretty much slide under the radar.
Also the only other Skorne guy who shows up for tourneys is dropping Makeda3 and beasts so there is definatley a dark horse element here.
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Post by chrisbatson on Jun 16, 2019 16:48:25 GMT
Game 32
Funny how it plays out...So someone did META again immortals. I think the list that was presented should give Zaal2 one helluva fight since they can still probably drop 1/2 units on my feat, which is a huge part of Zaal2 play. But....I wasnt even playing Zaal2 on this day, I had my eye set on playing some Zadesh2.
Zadesh2 -Marketh -Raider -Shaman -Shaman Supreme Guardian Ancestral Guardian Ancestral Guardian Hakaar 3x Noviate 3x Immortals with UA
vs. Tannith -WoldWarden -WoldWarden -Megalith -Wold Wyrd -Wold Wyrd -Wold Wyrd Stoneshaper Wayfarer Gallows Grove 2x Shifting Stones 2x Sentry stones
It seems like a hard counter into Zaal2. Tannith has affliction, which ignores Zaal2 feat, admonition can solve some assassination problems, shadowbind keeps an SG in check, scything touch is useful. He's got the volume of attacks from brigands and sprays to deliver under hot swapping affliction.
T1. He runs up, fairly symertrical. Brigands on the right is the only odd piece. T1. I pile one unit of immortals around the SG to arcane vortex, get up clouds to keep LOS blocked from the brigands and the other unit, well...its just screwed. I dont get up resolve due to 3x wyrds on the table.
T2. He doesnt really need afliction to deal with me, so he opts to kill the raider since it takes away far strike from the shamans. He moves up, arcs affliciton onto it and 2x Wyrds and 2x sprays and a lot of crappy dice leave it on 6. I lose a few immortals on the left, the brigands back up a touch and that the turn. T2. Vengence nets me 1 manikin. I can get 1 charge off with the SG and drop 2 mannikins and his tree. I run everything else to engage. I move up, drop clouds to protect my caster and feat. All 3 units get +2 def. I also kill 1 of each stone with shaman shots. I score 1.
T3. He's tied up fairly well. Tannith takes a shot and shadowbinds and immortal that also catches the SG and Hakkar. Tannith feats, moves affliction onto a unit of immortals and gets scything touch on a warden. It charges in and kills the SG like its nothing. I do defensive strike him, but dont take out an aspect. He sprays down the left unit and lose about 6. The other unit is behind a cloud. I lose 5-6 in the other units and a black clad teleports into my zone. 1-1. T3. Vengence triggers and I drop a wyrd, both sentry stones and like 2 brigands. I easily drop both wardens, another wyrd and take the megalith down to 1/2. CLoud to protect myself. Drop all but 1 brigand. 2-1.
T4. He's not got much left. He probably kills 10 immortals with what is left. 2-2. T4. Board state doesnt look horrible, i've only got like 8 immortals left, but those 8 + my battle group nearly clear the board.
He conceeds.
I still think his list has merit and can be a terrifying drop into Zaal2, but we just need to test it.
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Post by ziggyqubert on Jun 17, 2019 12:23:43 GMT
ya not so sure that affliction is really the answer, sure it helps to kill immortals, but they arnt really the problem, you can always set things up so a supreme can keep a unit safe if need be, and the supremes easily out threat all the heavies, most Zaal lists should have at least one shield guard which easily protects you from shadow bind.
As a Zall2 player I look at that list and dont really see a problem playing into it, but definatly worth testing
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Jun 17, 2019 13:25:03 GMT
So far the hardest counters I've found into Zaal2 Exalted is sprays, especially if they deliver corrosion or fire. The sprays are used to snipe out the Novitiates and UAs. Also Marauder spam is good for dealing with double Supreme, but they need a way to clear the Immortals that block for it.
So far the hardest game I've had was into Crucible Guard. They have so many debuffs that deny tough, lower your armor, get additional damage dice vs constructs, and apply corrosion, etc... It seems custom built to crush our statues
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Post by ziggyqubert on Jun 17, 2019 13:37:02 GMT
So far the hardest counters I've found into Zaal2 Exalted is sprays, especially if they deliver corrosion or fire. The sprays are used to snipe out the Novitiates and UAs. Also Marauder spam is good for dealing with double Supreme, but they need a way to clear the Immortals that block for it. So far the hardest game I've had was into Crucible Guard. They have so many debuffs that deny tough, lower your armor, get additional damage dice vs constructs, and apply corrosion, etc... It seems custom built to crush our statues If you position correctly sprays (not magic attack sprays) should not be able to snipe out the UA's as they have sack pawn
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Jun 17, 2019 13:40:45 GMT
So far the hardest counters I've found into Zaal2 Exalted is sprays, especially if they deliver corrosion or fire. The sprays are used to snipe out the Novitiates and UAs. Also Marauder spam is good for dealing with double Supreme, but they need a way to clear the Immortals that block for it. So far the hardest game I've had was into Crucible Guard. They have so many debuffs that deny tough, lower your armor, get additional damage dice vs constructs, and apply corrosion, etc... It seems custom built to crush our statues If you position correctly sprays (not magic attack sprays) should not be able to snipe out the UA's as they have sack pawn Right. Then the second and third sprays happen...
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Post by chrisbatson on Jun 18, 2019 15:40:39 GMT
Game 33. Zadesh2 -Marketh -Raider -Shaman -Shaman Supreme Guardian Ancestral Guardian Ancestral Guardian Hakaar 3x Noviate 3x Immortals with UA
vs. Seige2 -Triumph -Iron Clad Finn 2x Buster Hitch Dog Full Commandos with UA Full Long gunners with UA 2x Express Teams Full Trenchers
T1. He runs up, full steam. He gets Fury on the trenchers. He's weak to the right zone. Long gunners sort of drift over there. Trenchers up the middle and commandos hard left. Support is centralized. Triumph is right leaning. Hallowed avenger also goes on the Ironclad. T1. He's up really far, and has some tools to really own the positioning of the game. He can just feat and get into me, drop clouds and feat backwards, drop a razor wall....he's got options. I run up, pretty agressive. I pile tight on the right around a woods. Move up my caster and cloud wall that side. On the left and right, not a whole I can do but take it on the chin, which I am ok with. I've got decent armor, tough and I use my souls to take both of those units to def 13. My battle group takes some shots and I thin down 3 Trenchers. His Express teams are dug in.
T2. The commandos charge in on the far left. Def 13 helps me quite a bit and I only 3 immortals. I kill one with a def strike from the SG and the rest cant quick work due to my 2" reach. I also make some tough checks. He opts to fire into me. Seige moves up, drops his rocket pod. Long gunners shimmy back to the middle and fire into me. Losses are minimal even with re-rolls. Again, he cant aim and def 13 helps me out so much. Triumph sees through the cloud and gets a kill. He fires a few trenchers and clouds the rest. Razor wall also goes up. T2. I get vengence on 2 units, the central and left. In the center, LOS is pretty much blocked off by clouds, a forest and a razor wall so I just use vengence to move around. On the left, I rip into the commandos, but 7 seems impossible to hit. I Really anticipated doing more damage to them and didnt do a great job of positioning with them. I got lazy. If I could kill like 6 of them, then I have a clear path to his ironclad with my SG. Dice fail me even with their activation and I cant clear the path. The SG moves up a little, gets the last kill but cant get to the jack and brings back 3 guys. I end up really just running in and feating. I do kill a few people on the right. But with my casters activation, I have some options. I opt to not drop a cloud wall. I ended up camping like 4 and putting up resolve on myself.
T3. He is pretty tied up and I am feeling good. He is not feeling good and doesnt see his options. He starts with the rocket pod, misses and gets this perfect scatter onto like 6 immortals and kills them all. Its not a big game changer in terms of material loss, but the position is perfect for the shot as it clears a perfect path for Seige. With the path cleared, he puts my caster on a hill so he can be shot and in he comes....Its not a charge, its a move followed by a jump which is a place effect that gets past my feat. One important thing to note. If he cant kill me with Seige, an assassination is almost off the table since I can sac pawn what few shots he can get onto me into a fresh beast. He hits me hard, but opts to kill the beast with seige and leaves it on 6. I am down to about 1/2 health. He feats to get better positioning for his troops, but is still tied up by my feat pretty good. He is able to break a buster free who lands a shot on me that I sac pawn to and kill the beast. I pull in the fury for another transfer. I survive shots from an express team, triumph, Hitch, and 7 long gunners but at the end of it, I am on 1 box and 1 transfer. T3. I am able to easily kill seige.
While a short game, it had everything i love. T2 was a huge chess game with hard controls that I thought I had won, but one good shot and siege is in the game. Had he killed the cyclops with seige, I would have lost since I couldnt sac pawn that buster shot that was HUGE spiked dice. If I had to transfer that I would have died. Short but super fun and what I love about WM.
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Post by chrisbatson on Jun 20, 2019 15:39:07 GMT
Game 34 Zaal2 -Mammoth Supreme Supreme Hakaar Ancestral Abidan Noviate Soulward 2x Immortals
vs. MacKay -Vulcan -Vanguard Railless Railless mechainc Prospero -Vindicator Alchemists Alchemists
Scenario is was spread the net.
I differ my Zaal2 build just a little. I know that the more popular one runs a vessal over a soulward, but with SO much Tharn in my meta, guidance makes a big difference.
T1. I win the dieroll and run up. Vision on the right SG and Aura of Power up. The Line up is immortals, SG, SG, Mammoth, Immortals. T1. He also runs up staying 11" outside of threat. He gets up Fail Safe on the Vulcan
T2. I run again. The 2 SG's are somewhat screened by immortals but they are close enough together that if (or when) he charges into them with the Vulcan that I will defensive Strike him 2x. I feat and wait...I do go +2 def in hopes that it helps. Mammoth fires everything it has into the Vulcan to soften it up. T2. He hands out focus and feats. McKay gets to work on 1 SG, but even with Feat, the damage is minimal. Railless 1 opens up a path to 1 SG by killing 6 immortals. +2 def helps a little. In comes the Vulcan and hands out -1 AR. He takes 21 damage from 2s def strikes but manages to drop one SG through Vision. The other railless starts to carve a path to the other SG so the 2 jacks can get on it. He kills about 6 there too with feat and in come the 2 jacks, but they dont finish it off. I dont even know if anyone scores.
T3. Vengence does minor damage to one railless and good damage to the vindicator. I get the SG +2 Str from the Noviate and he threshers into the Vulcan, railless and both jacks. I buy out attacks on the railless and destroy it and the liberator. In comes the Mammoth who finshes off the Vulcan. On the right, immortals charge and swarm over the other railless but dont kill it. I move the right immortals back and kill prospero who was on a flag. But I dont kill him and leave him on 1. My caster gets up vision on the other SG again. I score 1-0. T3. McKay kills the remaining SG. The other rail less kills but 2 immortals in that unit. Knowing he will die, prospero kills 3 immortals. 2-0.
T4. Board state is Zaal2, 1 immortal and UA, Mammoth, 3 immortals and UA vs. McKay, no damage, rail less with about 1/2 and a mechanic. Vengence kills prospero. Mammoth fires into Railless and finishes it off with 3 boosted shots. 4 shot into the objective. Immortal and UA charge objective and drop it. I pull the other immortals in a run back to score a zone and that takes me to 5-0.
With slightly better dice, he could have dropped both SG's on his feat turn I think. That 2nd SG was left o n 9 boxes. I dont even know when I killed the combat alchemists. They just died to random vengence I think.
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Post by chrisbatson on Jun 20, 2019 18:24:25 GMT
Game 35 Zaal2 -Mammoth Supreme Supreme Hakaar Ancestral Abidan Noviate Soulward 2x Immortals
vs. Axis -Conservator -Conservator -Corollary -Inverter Node 4x Enigma Foundry 2x Locus Jamis 3x Obstructors 1x min reductors
Scenario is Mirage
T1. He wins the roll and with advance move, he is up there. He gets up Iron Agression on the Inverter. T1. I have some options here, but he is very far up the board. I can run and feat, but then I would just expect him to fall back and draw my feat out. I opt to slow play due to scenario. Going 2nd, I can get into his zone, and still score mine and a flag, so I think I should be OK. I cautiosuly move up and try and bait him out and hope that he would feat to get into my caster. He can charge me with 4 guys, but two would die to defensive strikes. Those 2 cant kill me. I just move up the mammoth and roll max shots and just drop a ton
T2. I am in threat range of 8 in total, 2 can get on my left and right units and 4 on my caster. He doesnt take the bait as planned. He runs to jams and shoots my caster with the 2x locus, which strips my upkeep. He gets a very well placed razor wall on the left and feats just so my SG's cant charge into him. T2. You have to kill those enigma foundries as a priority, but that's tough with range in this list and shield guards. Thanks to the razor wall, I cant score his zone and I am pressed for space. The mammoth rolls well for shots and even with a shield guard shot kills the enigma foundry on the far right. I cut into the guys that I can but I cant clear out all the models within 4" of my flag. He made a mistake an put 1 enigma foundy exactly 11" from from 2 immortals on the flag. I go incorproeal and kill it + a ton of obstructors. My caster moves back just a touch and feats. Guardians are locked and cant really thresher so they kill 2 guys each. We both go 1-1.
T3. I hit him surprisingly hard, but taking out 2 foundries is just HUGE. I have to pretty much take his army straight to the face, but thats what my feat is for. Two loaded jacks come in one of my guardians and I take out the mace on the Inverter. He leaves me on about 6. I don't even lose that many immortals due to the fact that I have him tied up and it makes charges difficult. He scores his flag and zone and score none, so we go 1-3. T3. I clear out this insane path for an SG with vengence moves. A loaded SG is able to charge up and thresher into both locus, a foundry, and a jack killing them all. The other just takes out a jack. with my other attacks from immortal activation, i put huge damage on the board. I score 2, he scores 1 and we go 3-4.
T4. A scenario win could be possible. He can shut me down from my 2, take 2 flags, the objective and his zone and he wins. He can win on attrition or assassination. The clears his zone, and contests mine. He gets a solo on a flag and has to just score the middle but he doesnt have the pieces to remove the SG there. He also fails to kill my objective. We end up 3-6. T4. I clear the board but his caster and he concedes.
Tight game although the board state didnt show it. Slightly better dice on my objective and he's 1 point off a scenario win. Could he have scored that point? I think possibly. T2 had he spaced out and not made a landing space for me to take that enigma on the flag and its a different game.
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Post by chrisbatson on Jun 20, 2019 18:57:19 GMT
Game 36 Makeda3 -Karn -Agnoizer -krea Supreme Ancestral Ancestral Hakaar 2x Noviate 3x immortals
vs. Sevvy2 -Judicator Choir Bastion solo Gravus bastions cinerators with UA errants with UA Exemplar with UA
Somehow his list is 2 off. I dont think it was in the game, i'm sure I am not making it correctly. Scenario is spread the net.
T1. I run up and get bulwark. I run left due to his judicator being on the left. t1. he gets up arcane ward on the errants moves up. Errants take some shots, maybe drops a few guys.
T2. I upkeep bulwark (I dont know why, forgot he got blessed with his theme, which is REAL important here in a second). I run up Makeda behind a woods. I dont really have much of a plan other than charge forward. I stay largely outside of his threat range and keep UA's back far as I can. I get up the Krea Aura. T2. So...he allocates 2 to the Judy. Choir up, casts awareness, rebukes a unit and ashes to ashes into a unit. And that woods that I thought was going to save me wouldn't. I am 4" away from a Judy after move. I feel confident with Bulwark and the krea animus....he ignores those. I have 3 transfers though and need them all! I lose the Krea and agnoizer to transfers. the bastions shut down Makeda with the threat of defensive strikes. Errants shoots, cinerators are out of range and exemplar charge in with their mini-feat and take down about 5. He scores 2, I score 1. 1-2.
T3. Looks tough, since even if Makeda could nuts, she really cant get on much due to spacing. Vengence hits hard and I draw out his defensive strikes with vengence. I feat take the two bastions and fate walker back behind a wall. Karn gets on the Judy and leaves it on a few. My far right immortals who havent been damaged get into the cinerators and the judy. I kill the judy and 3 cinerators + ua. I kill all the exemplar and get a few guys into errants. I score 2 to his 0 3-2. T3. Cinerators vengence + activation + gravus + 3 bastions kill a whole the right unit of immortals, but he's out of place with is army. errants kill thier fair share, but I also tough quite a bit. I eat some ashes to ashes for minimal damage. He score 2 to my 1, 4-4.
T4. Karn! I cast insight and fail a charge to the right to get distance. I'm back behind that woods. Karn just goes nuts and kills gavus, both cinerators, a bastion and fate walkers to contest his flag. I mop up the errants and score 3. 7-4. T4. He's only got his caster, some choir, 1 bastion and the solo left. I can just cruise to scenario victory now and he has to concede.
I've tested this matchup enough. I think Sevvy2 is a great caster, but with out blessing he cant get the mileage out of ash2ashes and his feat really hurts him into immortals. Oppoent agrees and this will probbaly be the last time I see Sevvy2.
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Post by chrisbatson on Jun 24, 2019 1:46:24 GMT
Game 37 Zaal2 -Mammoth Supreme Supreme Hakaar Ancestral Abidan Noviate Soulward 2x Immortals
vs.
Maleok -blind walker -blind walker -wrastler -Soul Slave mire -snapper 3x full possee 1x min possee 1x River Raider 1x croc doc
Scenario is Spread the net
T1. I win the roll and opt to go first. Supreme's in the middle and Mammoth to the right. Immortals on the flanks. Nothing fancy...just a run forward. T1. Also nothing fancy. Just a run forward. Undead spell up.
T2. Nothing fancy part deux. Aura of power and vision up, Vision on the leftsih SG. Feat + charge. I stay out of threat range of the heavies. Mammoth moves up and fires. 1st shot into a gator, he shield guards. I hit one other shot and dont kill the gator. -BIG mistake here. I should have gone +2 def on the immortals. Gators needing 7's is way better than needing 5's + there is no way my feat is going to save me from charging 13's. I do my best to spread out and minimize how many he can kill. T2. Soul Slave moves up and gets a mortality on the right unit. In comes some gators. I lose 6 immortals. Maelock moves up, gets mortality on an SG. I opt not to cancel it since I think I can tank whatever he can throw at me. min sqaud of gators + another max squad all charge the mammoth. Do quite a bit of damage. He ghost walks a blind walker/fury's him from the caster that charges into an Ancestral guardian. I blow out his body with a defensive strike. He does minimal damage to me. On the left, the last full unit of gators charge in and I lose 5 on that side despite killing a gator with a defensive strike and the unit having tough.
T3. I upkeep Aura and vengence. At dice off 9, i maybe do a few points here or there. I need to get some serious work done with the mammoth. He needs 6's, but out of 8 attacks, I kill 2 gators. The noviate gives an SG+2 str and he moves to super thresher. I kill a lot...IDK, 7 ish gators. I was pretty insane. I buy out attacks but dont kill the blind walker somehow. The other AG has worse luck and downs 1 gator and brings back 3 immortals. Immortals dont do a whole lot even with incorporeal shennagians and charging. Maybe drop 3 gators. Hakaar does nothing despite boosting attacks from Aura. Adiden with flank wounds a gator, the AG kills it. I put 2 immortals on the blind walker that charged the SG and dont kill it. I put 2 boosted sunder spirits in and dont kill it.
For the record, thats a total of 5 attacks from SG with + 2 str counting def strike, 2 charging immortals and 2 boosted sunder spirits and I still dont kill the blind walker. It is on 2. My caster has no fury left. I run the Soulward to block a charge from it when he kills the SG next turn. No one scores, 1-0.
T3. He's got a really good assassination run. He gets fury/Ghost walk on the other Blindwalker and charges the SG with his caster. I dont take the defensive strike since I can see the other blindwalker coming in. He hits the blocking soulward with venom and he dies. He does some damage to the SG. He heals the blindwalker on the SG For 2, bringing him back to all functioning aspects. In comes the other blindwalker. It is the one that shield guarded on T2 the shot from the mammoth. I def strike it and sure enough, take out the spirit. It still kills the SG. He cant get any gators over the immortals on blind walker with a perfect charge lane to my caster. He kills other stuff to be safe and sends in the blindwalker. I nearly max the dice on the free strike and kill him. No score.
t4. Loaded SG with noviate STR buff easily kills Maeklock.
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Post by chrisbatson on Jun 24, 2019 1:48:09 GMT
I dont know about the mammoth with Zaal2. I only started playing it because I got it for 35 bucks and spent like a month painting it and its super badass. I'm not sure its pulling its weight. I may try to look at despoiler/krea/agnoizer with him.
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Post by chrisbatson on Jun 27, 2019 19:13:51 GMT
Couple of things i'm working on for my next games. The biggest is changing up my formula to drop the 2x ancestral guardian to 1x and Abidan. I dont get any mileage out of the SG's other than flag sitting and getting the +2 move. I think with some better positioning and tighter play, I can just use one. I am getting shot A LOT and I think Abidan will help with that a lot. Taking a big shot off the board I think limits some outs for quite a few people.
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Post by chrisbatson on Jun 27, 2019 19:49:55 GMT
Game 38 Zadesh2 -Marketh -Raider -Shaman -Shaman Supreme Guardian Ancestral Guardian Abiden Hakaar Noviate Noviate 3x Immortals
Gearheart -Alice -Suppressor -Vanguard -Retaliator Interceptor Mechanic Prospero -Vindicator Crucible Guard Infantry -UA Rocket Assault troops
Scenario was Spread the Net T1. He runs up. He gets up Hotshot on one of his jacks, and snipe on the CG infantry. CG infanty on my left, a little wide IMO. Battle engine on my right. T1. There is a house in the middle and a forest to my right. Marketh gives me harmonius, and put up 3 clouds and send a unit of immortals hard into towards that. For the rest of my army, I just walk and stay 16" away with the most of my army. I give him a few guys to trigger vengence.
T2. the left is shut down. He drops snipe, upkeeps hot shot. He blocks off his zone so I cant run a guy in. He opts to not trigger vengence and pretty much does nothing. Moves and positions. T2. I have to walk into death at some point. Seems like its now. He didnt call my bluff and trigger any vengence. Marketh gives harmonious. I get up only 2 clouds and get up resolve on the guardian. I run 3 immortals into his CG to tie them up. I get some shots off my guys, kill two assault troops. But I basically have to run into him. I score my flag and zone, he scores his zone, 2-1. All immortals get +2 def.
T3. Go time. Gearheart can kill some stuff.....He moves up on the other side of the house in the middle and feats putting prey on the SG. It takes 2 hard shots from him, I shield guard one. I get oiled from one jack. The assault troops charge in. I kill one with my def strike. One gets crit fire and I take a big hit thanks to oil. That CG infantry can shoot all do extra damage into me and the SG dies pretty easily. He moves prey to Hakaar. The shooting jack rolls like a boss and one shots Hakaar. He moves prey to the right unit. The battle engine kills all but 2 guys. I stopped the prey chain though. His other jacks get into and. In total he killed the SG, Hakaar, 18 immortals. He scores his zone and his flag, i score my zone, 3-3. T3. Gearheart is camping 2, and I can land 2 immortals into him through the house. The shamans goes roll hot and burn out his focus and still do a few damage. I pop feat. Plan A is kill him with these 2 immortals who cant even charge. Plan b is I think I can take the middle/right and win on scenario in a few, but I have nothing to deal with that battle engine. I'm not in a horrible spot, but its rough. Nice thing is that Plan A is not tied to Plan B. Raider shoots his heavy for chip damage. Left unit activates, that is there I can the two guys in. I go incoropreal. I have 3 souls thanks to the 3 guys that I ran to tie up some CG. Little did i know how important that would be. I cant charge, but I have the distance. First guy misses, but i have a reroll. I hit and get some really good damage. 2nd guy hit and does a few, not enough to kill, but my reroll comes through and kills him. Thanks Feat!
Lesson: Gearheart will kill a lot, but to maxmize his feat, he's got to get fairly close. When playing vs him, spreading out guys to stop the prey chain from his feat is a big key to slowing down his potential.
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