mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
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Post by mazog on Dec 26, 2018 22:55:03 GMT
Several seem ridiculous to me. I played the TB one once, after warning my opponents it looked ridiculous and being reassured they were ok with it. Battle bears (with NO resource cost) and a nearly all ambush list with ambush limit+3 did not seem ok, even if I only have a single data point. Mind you, I am a single faction player, I like trolls and want them to have nice things, but that seemed ridiculous.
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bacon
Junior Strategist
Posts: 134
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Post by bacon on Dec 27, 2018 1:53:59 GMT
Ambush and advance deploy can be strong in CoI but because of the nature the I go you go turn sequence you can lose ambushers before they get a chance to activate. So they're mitigated somewhat in this format.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Dec 27, 2018 7:28:38 GMT
Yeah. The CoI stuff is spread oddly far and wide. That's kind of my problem with it now (along with there not really being anyone around who wants to play): I liked the idea of a smaller, simpler game than Warmachine, but actually I can't keep track of all the resources I need to actually play the game. Physical card decks (with no digital version available?), rulebooks, requisition cost lists, supplements that allow specific models to be taken (like dismounted solos), extra commander cards; I didn't even know until just now that COI themes existed! I originally thought this could be a good game to draw in new players what with being smaller (and hopefully much quicker to play), but if I can't keep track of it... I suppose for it to be really suitable for drawing in new players it would need to ditch the tape measure and work on a grid or something. PP have been teasing a new game lately right? I don't know anything about it; any chance it might fit the "grid-based new-player-friendly" criteria?
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Post by michael on Dec 27, 2018 16:18:37 GMT
The new Riot Quest is on a hex grid, as I recall.
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Post by Charistoph on Dec 27, 2018 18:56:46 GMT
How essential are the cards to the overall system? Is there a way to minimize or drop them all together using base Warmachine mechanics?
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bacon
Junior Strategist
Posts: 134
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Post by bacon on Dec 27, 2018 20:23:08 GMT
The cards are a way to help balance models and make weaker model choices more appealing, so I'd say they are mandatory unless you and your opponent restrict model choices before list building. For example without a deck why would you ever want to take kossites? With the deck they increase your hand size by 2 and can use cards to boost attack/damage rolls to make them actually hit and kill things. Or on the merc side of things grundback blasters would be ludicrously powerful in this game mode, whereas currently they have a -2 hand size that might not make them the best choice all the time.
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Post by Charistoph on Dec 27, 2018 23:21:32 GMT
I'm curious, how is the Blaster would be ludicrously powerful in a system which does not allow Focus? It is that Focus which makes the Blaster so dang effective, after all. Did they change Powerful Attack in CoI to require a Card instead of a Focus?
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Post by Soul Samurai on Dec 28, 2018 4:37:44 GMT
The new Riot Quest is on a hex grid, as I recall. Ah, yes, that's the name. So far I don't know anything at all about it though; is there any substantial information available yet? Does it use the same models as warmahordes?
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Zaku
Junior Strategist
Posts: 224
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Post by Zaku on Dec 28, 2018 10:39:35 GMT
The new Riot Quest is on a hex grid, as I recall. Ah, yes, that's the name. So far I don't know anything at all about it though; is there any substantial information available yet? Does it use the same models as warmahordes? The Riot Quest models will be compatible with Warmachine/Hordes from what I have seen... I really want that "Metal Slug" looking tank. But, should hopefully be dorking around with some Khador CoI lists this weekend. Should be interesting to experiment with lists using the rulebook scenarios.
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bacon
Junior Strategist
Posts: 134
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Post by bacon on Dec 28, 2018 21:20:32 GMT
I'm curious, how is the Blaster would be ludicrously powerful in a system which does not allow Focus? It is that Focus which makes the Blaster so dang effective, after all. Did they change Powerful Attack in CoI to require a Card instead of a Focus? in the rules, if a war jack or war beast has an ability that requires spending a focus or being forced and it isn't an animus or power attack (which can be used using other rules), then it can use one once per turn for free. This includes imprints, abilities like the battle boars adrenalize and it was confirmed in the rules forum to also include powerful attack
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Post by Charistoph on Dec 28, 2018 21:39:24 GMT
I'm curious, how is the Blaster would be ludicrously powerful in a system which does not allow Focus? It is that Focus which makes the Blaster so dang effective, after all. Did they change Powerful Attack in CoI to require a Card instead of a Focus? in the rules, if a war jack or war beast has an ability that requires spending a focus or being forced and it isn't an animus or power attack (which can be used using other rules), then it can use one once per turn for free. This includes imprints, abilities like the battle boars adrenalize and it was confirmed in the rules forum to also include powerful attack Well, that sounds like a poor business decision over all. I still doubt the efficacy of using an outside source to "depower" something else.
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Post by Azahul on Dec 30, 2018 5:37:00 GMT
Well, that sounds like a poor business decision over all. I still doubt the efficacy of using an outside source to "depower" something else. For what it's worth, in my experience it has actually worked quite well. A large hand size can be a substantial advantage, and PP has generally been good at identifying which models require a hand size penalty or bonus due to being disproportionately effective or ineffective in the new format. That factor means that I've seen an enormous variety of lists, and lists made up of deliberately oddball choices can still function into lists optimised to shred the light infantry that typically make up the bulk of CoI lists. There are some poor choices here and there. I can see the rationalisation for giving the Gobber Chef a +1 hand size, because his principle rule has no impact in a format where Warbeasts don't generate Fury and can't Frenzy. However, that means that he's a 1 point option for +1 hand size, and that's an almost ludicrously good exchange (playing a point down on your opponent gives a similar benefit, but this way you get an extra Def 14 body). Pretty minor stuff though.
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Post by michael on Dec 31, 2018 18:38:57 GMT
Well, that sounds like a poor business decision over all. I still doubt the efficacy of using an outside source to "depower" something else. For what it's worth, in my experience it has actually worked quite well. A large hand size can be a substantial advantage, and PP has generally been good at identifying which models require a hand size penalty or bonus due to being disproportionately effective or ineffective in the new format. That factor means that I've seen an enormous variety of lists, and lists made up of deliberately oddball choices can still function into lists optimised to shred the light infantry that typically make up the bulk of CoI lists. There are some poor choices here and there. I can see the rationalisation for giving the Gobber Chef a +1 hand size, because his principle rule has no impact in a format where Warbeasts don't generate Fury and can't Frenzy. However, that means that he's a 1 point option for +1 hand size, and that's an almost ludicrously good exchange (playing a point down on your opponent gives a similar benefit, but this way you get an extra Def 14 body). Pretty minor stuff though. I agree with this because it matches my experiences.
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Zaku
Junior Strategist
Posts: 224
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Post by Zaku on Jan 2, 2019 12:55:07 GMT
Well, ran some Winter Guard themed CoI lists last time I played. Was up against two different Trencher lists. The first with normal Trencher Infantry and a light... And the second against Maxwell Finn and a max unit of Trencher Commandos.
The Commandos with Finn... Long story short... I got rocked hard haha. Stealth seems to be insanely powerful in Company of Iron, and the Commandos have so much naturally that even with my opponent having a 1 card hand, my Winter Guard plus Joe could do almost nothing in the two games I faced off against the Commandos. They were able to efficiently grab objectives with Pathfinder, and stay safe from return fire with Stealth.
What options does Khador have against mass Stealth? I tried the WG Mortar, but with how spread out the opponent can be, and how the activations work, it was not very helpful. Haven't gotten my Yuri in the mail yet, and the Kossites are still sitting on the project bench unbuilt.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Jan 2, 2019 16:24:40 GMT
Can the WGI officer give the unit sprays in COI?
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