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Post by slaughtersun on Jan 26, 2019 22:04:28 GMT
What do you mean by not the best its ever been? Honest question I literally was saying that this is the best the game has ever been until Circle and Skorne blew up in our faces. Yes, they are that bad. Though perhaps this is more galling because for quite a while there we had no more overpowered things than usual. Probably fewer. But right now, for all practical purposes of what sees tournament play, two entire factions are completely broken. Thank you for the clarification. On my meta skorne has always been a bogeyman because our best player uses them...so getting destroyed by skorne has always been here... as for circle i think they have always been...good in mk3 regardless of what the internet says. Perhaps we are now feeling "new model / cid" syndrome... while it seems that those 2 factions are good now ill reserve my opinion for a few months.
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Post by oncomingstorm on Jan 27, 2019 2:28:27 GMT
What do you mean by not the best its ever been? Honest question I literally was saying that this is the best the game has ever been until Circle and Skorne blew up in our faces. Yes, they are that bad. Though perhaps this is more galling because for quite a while there we had no more overpowered things than usual. Probably fewer. But right now, for all practical purposes of what sees tournament play, two entire factions are completely broken. Circle and skorne are not 'completely broken. The meta always loses it's shit after a CID...then it adapts. There are maybe 3 broken models that came out of those two CIDs, and it's no more than we've seen previously.
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crow
Junior Strategist
Posts: 310
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Post by crow on Jan 27, 2019 3:07:26 GMT
I literally was saying that this is the best the game has ever been until Circle and Skorne blew up in our faces. Yes, they are that bad. Though perhaps this is more galling because for quite a while there we had no more overpowered things than usual. Probably fewer. But right now, for all practical purposes of what sees tournament play, two entire factions are completely broken. Circle and skorne are not 'completely broken. The meta always loses it's shit after a CID...then it adapts. There are maybe 3 broken models that came out of those two CIDs, and it's no more than we've seen previously. +1 I play Convergence, Mercs and quite literally got Trolls a few weeks ago (though I have yet to actually try them) and honestly I've never run into a situation where I can't figure out how to deal with something. Just played against a decent Tharn player and had a really good game using convergence. I play against primal terrors on a frequent bases, and although our skorne player is just getting started, I'll have the joy of learning that soon-ish. Honestly my least favorite army to play against is Khador, but even then I wouldn't say it's "unbeatable".
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Post by mcdermott on Jan 27, 2019 4:04:19 GMT
I literally was saying that this is the best the game has ever been until Circle and Skorne blew up in our faces. Yes, they are that bad. Though perhaps this is more galling because for quite a while there we had no more overpowered things than usual. Probably fewer. But right now, for all practical purposes of what sees tournament play, two entire factions are completely broken. Circle and skorne are not 'completely broken. The meta always loses it's shit after a CID...then it adapts. There are maybe 3 broken models that came out of those two CIDs, and it's no more than we've seen previously. See Also: The social media community kills their favorite games.
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shiver
Junior Strategist
Posts: 150
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Post by shiver on Jan 27, 2019 8:37:08 GMT
more negative, or more honest? sometimes that line is really thin. "Just being honest" is stereotypical coded language for "I'm being an Uranus" Or, and bear with me here, it just means that under the guise of anonymity, it means that people are more likely to say what they think without the social pressure to conform. It also means people will be Urani, but being an Uranus and speaking what you think are not mutually exclusive ideals.
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Post by krawat on Jan 27, 2019 13:37:23 GMT
IMHO the boom of Warmachine between 2013-2016 was caused not by WMH itself but rather weakness of its competition. 2014-2015 was the end of Warhammer Battle and the worst period of Wh40k ever had with a lot of people leaving and complaining. X-Wing was just starting (not sure when). New AoS tanked also. Then GW got his shit together, Star Wars released new movies and Press Gang was disbanded. Mk3 was also not so great at the start. Then it went downhill. Lately I checked the Wh40k meta a little (maybe a more then a little ) and the amount of competitive content is really huge and they are just a step away from getting their own Steamroller rules supported by GW (now they use ITC and ETC so still 2 sets of rules). In January WD they even posted a battle report that had competitive armies and competitive players (both are masters finalists in UK). Besides to push others from the market they release a lot of side / introductionary games that push WMH, Infinity, Legion, GuildBall and others from the market and they have money and technology to do it. Honestly I dont think there is a way to increase amount of players of WMH drastically as the period of perferct storm (2013-2015) for GW / SW has passed and the number of games present on the market is just too big. Only way would be if the PP is bought by someone with same resources (money) as GW and a lot of marketing is put into the system. Would it be the same as WMH we have now. I am not sure. If it stays the way it is WMH will be another niche system with the emphasis on competitive play that is steadly drained by WH40k as it becomes more competitive positive. K.
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Post by cainuslupus on Jan 29, 2019 12:44:06 GMT
I literally was saying that this is the best the game has ever been until Circle and Skorne blew up in our faces. Yes, they are that bad. Though perhaps this is more galling because for quite a while there we had no more overpowered things than usual. Probably fewer. But right now, for all practical purposes of what sees tournament play, two entire factions are completely broken. Circle and skorne are not 'completely broken. The meta always loses it's shit after a CID...then it adapts. There are maybe 3 broken models that came out of those two CIDs, and it's no more than we've seen previously. Let's get this straight: both Iona and Tharn theme WILL be nerfed. Not really interested arguing the same thing again as with Kharchev, Una2, Ghost Fleet + Denny1, Haley2 etc. By botching up CiD some players will get leg up in competition but it's obvious it won't last forever. Just my 2 cents. Somehow without being best player in the world I've got almoust 100% accuracy on nerfs prediction (Haley1 was a suprise). I think playing faction with barely anything nerf worthy help with the bias.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Jan 29, 2019 13:10:13 GMT
Circle and skorne are not 'completely broken. The meta always loses it's shit after a CID...then it adapts. There are maybe 3 broken models that came out of those two CIDs, and it's no more than we've seen previously. Let's get this straight: both Iona and Tharn theme WILL be nerfed. Not really interested arguing the same thing again as with Kharchev, Una2, Ghost Fleet + Denny1, Haley2 etc. By botching up CiD some players will get leg up in competition but it's obvious it won't last forever. Just my 2 cents. Somehow without being best player in the world I've got almoust 100% accuracy on nerfs prediction (Haley1 was a suprise). I think playing faction with barely anything nerf worthy help with the bias. It's worth noting that all of your examples were products that didn't come out of CID though. It may very well be true that CID failed in this case (where do the draw the line?), but I'm not sure if PP would be very willing to admit they messed up on this. They were already dragging their feet on admitting they messed up some internal testing, let alone that they would admit that their "holy grail" would turn out to have failed.
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Post by slaughtersun on Jan 29, 2019 13:35:18 GMT
The judicator and skorne turtle also need some looking into...
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Post by Gamingdevil on Jan 29, 2019 13:57:33 GMT
The judicator and skorne turtle also need some looking into... The tortoise has been the same for about 2 years (?) now and Skorne isn't exactly dominating the meta. I agree it's a very strong model that is hard to deal with, but from the actual meta, PP has basically no reason to rework the Siege Animantarax.
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Post by slaughtersun on Jan 29, 2019 14:11:47 GMT
The judicator and skorne turtle also need some looking into... The tortoise has been the same for about 2 years (?) now and Skorne isn't exactly dominating the meta. I agree it's a very strong model that is hard to deal with, but from the actual meta, PP has basically no reason to rework the Siege Animantarax. And neither was Haley1 and arguably Denny1 (the ghost fleet issue was more of a theme problem than a caster one imho)... the fact that playing against those 2 models leaves a really bad taste in your mouth is usually the main argument to have things looked at.
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Post by sand20go on Jan 29, 2019 14:47:18 GMT
The judicator and skorne turtle also need some looking into... The tortoise has been the same for about 2 years (?) now and Skorne isn't exactly dominating the meta. I agree it's a very strong model that is hard to deal with, but from the actual meta, PP has basically no reason to rework the Siege Animantarax. Hmmmm.... Please go look at the latest ATC results and then report back.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Jan 29, 2019 16:18:55 GMT
The judicator and skorne turtle also need some looking into... The tortoise has been the same for about 2 years (?) now and Skorne isn't exactly dominating the meta. I agree it's a very strong model that is hard to deal with, but from the actual meta, PP has basically no reason to rework the Siege Animantarax. They are now that they can pair it with Makeda 3.
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Post by Kriegsspiele on Jan 29, 2019 19:05:52 GMT
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Post by cainuslupus on Jan 29, 2019 19:17:12 GMT
The tortoise has been the same for about 2 years (?) now and Skorne isn't exactly dominating the meta. I agree it's a very strong model that is hard to deal with, but from the actual meta, PP has basically no reason to rework the Siege Animantarax. They are now that they can pair it with Makeda 3. I won't talk about Skorne (my experience is very limited, we have 0 active players in my meta) but I'm pretty sure Circle has right now "toxic pairing" (Iona, Wurmwood) similar to one that Cryx had before PP cliped its wing. What I mean by that is two power casters that cover most list in favourable (often very) matchups and any list responding to one is automaticaly hard countered by another. So yeah, it will be addresed, probably later than sooner (there is still BAHI Spring to sell), but it's inevitable. Unless something happens that makes problem obsolete (same way Mk3 put end to Bradigus reign of boredom). Kriegsspiele - it's very simple. If materials about system bombs they don't make another. Youtubers often try to differentiate, throw content around and see what sticks. It's dangerous to put all eggs in one basket. Does it bodes bad for Warmachine? Maybe... Or maybe they have deal with GW. Or they don't want to "waste" resources o niche game. Or they consider Warmachine playthroughs boring (they are thb)? They don't like the system? Who knows? It would be better for the system to be covered by different channels but it's probably their conscious decision.
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