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Post by zwergenkrieger on Dec 15, 2018 21:16:14 GMT
Hi all,
after being off the game fir at least nine months now I'm going to take part in 2 steamrollers in the next couple weeks. Therefore I'm contemplating lists...
Well, Carver is one of my favourites when it comes down to mercenary casters and I pretty enjoyed every single game I had with him. I used to run a beast heavy force similar to the well known Azahul's version (4 heavies, 4 lights, some support). But I'm not sure wether Carver is good these days or not.
I also run him with 2x Slaughterhousers, 2x Brigands in our rather uncommon Thornfall Alliance theme. It offered some pretty high damage output and the more I think about it, the more I come to the conclusion that it might be a good counter to all those medium based infantry lists you can see these days.
Another intresting piece is the Underchief Mire, which will bring even more damage output to Carver lists with a Wrastler attached.
So what are your thoughts on Carver these days?
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Post by Azahul on Dec 16, 2018 14:01:14 GMT
I haven't touched him in about a year at this point, so take this with a grain of salt. I think my old 'beast heavy build would struggle in the current meta though, since a lot of the medium base infantry lists out there eat reasonably well armoured Warbeasts for breakfast and even with the Feat pig lights struggle to do anything in return. Mire doesn't even help that much in that particular case, because Mat 5 is a poor place to be into any list bar Man-O-War. Man-O-War without Vlad2, for that matter.
I've also never particularly rated him as an infantry Warlock. That may just be me, but all he's offering from my point of view is Veteran Leader and the Feat. Midas replicates and exceeds those advantages greatly, in my opinion. The fundamental problem with both is that Speed 5 pig infantry have a very hard time being relevant in the current scenario packet.
Since Mire has bumped Sturm and Drang up to the top two Warlocks in pigs, and I feel like Midas is the better infantry Warlock, I can't help but feel that Carver is only barely above Helga in the ranking of Farrow Warlocks. Which is probably indicative of us actually having a pretty solid stable, because he's still a really cool guy... I just don't think he's seeing the right kind of meta across the table right now.
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tomw
Junior Strategist
Posts: 128
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Post by tomw on Dec 16, 2018 20:59:02 GMT
I’ve been playing him in Food with this list:
Lord Carver, BMMD, Esq. III - WB: +28 - Gatorman Soul Slave - PC: 0 - Road Hog - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 16) - War Hog - PC: 15 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12) - War Hog - PC: 15 - War Hog - PC: 15 - War Hog - PC: 15 - Battle Boar - PC: 7
Thrullg - PC: 0 Alten Ashley - PC: 0 Bone Shrine - PC: 2 Feralgeist - PC: 2
Farrow Valkyries - Leader & 2 Grunts: 8 Farrow Valkyries - Leader & 2 Grunts: 8
It’s super fun, and having pig beasts that can survive contact is an interesting change of pace for farrow. The bone shrine and soul slave help with carver’s fury problems. The valkyries do a tonne of work with him, and the feralgeist is great with quagmire.
I love playing the list, but as a farrow beast brick, it has to compete with arkadius, and honestly, it isn’t as good. It is a lot of fun though!
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Post by MacGuffin on Dec 18, 2018 7:32:12 GMT
Carver is the easiest farrow warlock to pilot, especially for a newbie like me. Activate, cast batten/mobility, run razor boars into enemy lines (20 inches on turn 1 in WWFF!), primal everything as needed, and hope for the best. ARM 18 (melee) SPD 8 pathfinder razor boars are great. ARM 20 battle boars are great, war hogs are always great, I love Carver. Especially in WWFF.
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Post by zwergenkrieger on Dec 18, 2018 13:56:05 GMT
I’ve been playing him in Food with this list: Lord Carver, BMMD, Esq. III - WB: +28 - Gatorman Soul Slave - PC: 0 - Road Hog - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 16) - War Hog - PC: 15 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12) - War Hog - PC: 15 - War Hog - PC: 15 - War Hog - PC: 15 - Battle Boar - PC: 7 Thrullg - PC: 0 Alten Ashley - PC: 0 Bone Shrine - PC: 2 Feralgeist - PC: 2 Farrow Valkyries - Leader & 2 Grunts: 8 Farrow Valkyries - Leader & 2 Grunts: 8 It’s super fun, and having pig beasts that can survive contact is an interesting change of pace for farrow. The bone shrine and soul slave help with carver’s fury problems. The valkyries do a tonne of work with him, and the feralgeist is great with quagmire. I love playing the list, but as a farrow beast brick, it has to compete with arkadius, and honestly, it isn’t as good. It is a lot of fun though! It´s a nice List I should try. Though I have to get a 4th War Hog first...
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Post by sgregorbmmd on Dec 18, 2018 15:07:16 GMT
Mire’s cloud wall bunker helps shore up one of his biggest weaknesses and if you can fit a Wrastler in the list, you have POW 21 weapon master war hogs. I like him a lot; I acknowledge that Arkadius is a better warlock, but Carver deserves more credit than he gets.
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Post by Azahul on Dec 18, 2018 23:33:04 GMT
Yeah, Carver remains one of our best intro Warlocks (him being supplanted by Helga as our battlebox Warlock is a travesty honestly, especially since Helga herself is pretty unintuitive at that level no matter how much fun her game plan might be once you figure it out). And his kit is by no means bad. He's ended up in a similar sort of situation to the one Sturm and Drang have been in historically I think, in that he's got a great kit waiting on models to use it with. If we ever get a defensive heavy, or a discount heavy, or a combat light with a P+S higher than 11 and Mat better than 5, then all his force multiplier effects will start kicking into higher gear. He would kill for models like the Cyclops Brute, Troll Axer (ignoring Rush, it's that point cost to output ratio that he's looking for), or Neraph. Discount beaters or defensive Warbeasts are really what he's looking for.
Until releases of that sort come out, he's still not bad. He's just running Warbeasts that Arkadius runs better, or running infantry when Midas does that better. He's got a definite niche that he'll be very strong in if we ever get the models that slot into said niche.
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Post by autocorrecthaslimits on Dec 21, 2018 18:44:58 GMT
I have played Carver continuously through mk3 when not playing mercs and done quite well with him (albeit my meta is not super competitive). I run variations of a list I stole from this forum with 2-3 heavies, some gun boars, splatter boars, Rorsh and awesome, battle boar, and various other supports. I've found the sheer speed and damage output can completely dominate good matchups. With the soulslave quagmiring an incorporeal solo, a few good guns to remove key peices, and primal the warhogs/roadhogs/brine just get so much work done and with speed 9 turn 1 can usually position well enough. And valks and maximus under feat are brutal. He has some real hard matchups(clouds, anything that prevents his beasts from optimal trades, haleys/dennys) but I've never really struggled vs medium base infantry like primal terrors, MoWs, or maelock spam with him. Just keep him hidden, I usually bunker him with valks and Orrin to prevent random assassinations.
I'm not a word class player, and the doc covers more matchups and does what Carver can do mostly, but Carver seems to get better with every minion release. I also agree with azahul that if we ever get a budget light with mat6 Carvers stock will go up. Until then, hes a B tier caster. But what a blast he is!
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bacon
Junior Strategist
Posts: 134
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Post by bacon on Dec 21, 2018 19:00:58 GMT
Just a note but the soul slave cannot cast quagmire as it is an upkeep spell. Carver can upkeep it for free with the soul slave though.
I really like carver but my biggest problem with him is it seems like in my meta no matter where I position him my opponent always has a way to seriously threaten him, and I've never really been able to do well if I just cast either batten or mobility.
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Post by autocorrecthaslimits on Dec 21, 2018 19:27:02 GMT
Yes, that was confusing sorry for that! The soul slave allows Carver to cast batten and/or mobility with quagmire upkept: outside of boosted rifts the soulslave cant cast any of his spells. But I found that hiding Carver in the bacon bunker of valks and orrin helps him more than trying to camp a few fury so i can utilize his spells as much as possible. Again, I usually bank on my beasts being able to out threaten the opponents assasination attempts but I am not a great player just a fan of Carver. If only he was FURY 7...
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Post by zwergenkrieger on Dec 23, 2018 21:28:17 GMT
Well, I've never had Fury issues with carver. Turn 1 he normally is on zero camp, which never ever caused problems for me.
Turn 2 I have to decide wether I need both, Mobility and Batten, but often just one is needed. Either mobility for a brutal alpha or batten to weather the storm.
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tomw
Junior Strategist
Posts: 128
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Post by tomw on Dec 24, 2018 15:37:28 GMT
I’ve found his fury problems to be much better since the gator releases. I always try to cast quagmire first turn, with either mobility or batten, based on how far my opponent’s lost threats. Then turn 2 you can upkeep quagmire for free, cast mobility and batten, and camp 1 if you brought a bone shrine. At 13/20 with a transfer, he feels very safe.
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Post by Gaston on Jan 2, 2019 13:42:19 GMT
All my testing converged to this, never had much reason to change beyond a solo here or there:
Carver, WWFF -Soul Slave -Road Hog -Road Hog -War Hog -War Hog -War Hog -Battle Boar -Battle Boar Gremlin Swarm Gremlin Swarm Lanyssa Ryssyl Orin Midwinter Kwaak and Gub Bone Shrine
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