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Post by Big Fat Troll on Dec 25, 2018 15:35:40 GMT
Still, no discussion of "Grissel 1 Jank" would be complete without some mention of some version of Grissel's Missiles! conflictchamber.com/#c7201b_-0b589D9Djpczcz0hiXiXjq6R6R0l0m2NTrollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Power of Dhunia [Grissel 1] Grissel Bloodsong, Fell Caller [+29] - Dire Troll Mauler [15] - Dire Troll Mauler [15] - Mulg the Ancient [22] - Night Troll [7] - Night Troll [7] - Troll Axer [10] - Troll Basher [7] - Troll Basher [7] - Trollkin Runebearer [0(5)] Troll Whelps [0(4)] Troll Whelps [0(4)] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (max) [9] - Stone Scribe Elder [3] Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew [2] Where you arc Calamity and then buff stack a cheap light warbeast to trade up against bigger targets. This probably isn't so great against lots of units though.
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Post by ryssen2 on Dec 26, 2018 12:02:31 GMT
Still, no discussion of "Grissel 1 Jank" would be complete without some mention of some version of Grissel's Missiles! Where you arc Calamity and then buff stack a cheap light warbeast to trade up against bigger targets. This probably isn't so great against lots of units though. What do you launch? pow 17 lights against arm 20 (18 with calamity) and four attacks? Thats a whopping 20 damage assuming all attacks hit. You are also empty on fury after that if you boost the calamity. I could probably be onboard if you do it with only heavies. Earthborns with effective mat 8 pow 17 (assuming calamity) with free charges an access to pow 21 seems better.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Dec 26, 2018 14:03:11 GMT
ryssen2 Let's look at a Slayer under Gaspy 3. Grissel might need to boost to hit with Calamity but she can still camp 2 and have the Runebearer cast Boundless Charge. A Mauler can cast Rage and the KSB can opt for STR. After all of that, a Night Troll has three initials at 16/16/15 against a more manageable 11/17. You can charge for free and might as well lead with the bite, for 8 damage on an average roll. You can then do up to 5 attacks with the claws at an average of 6 damage each. So that all adds up to 38, which is way more than enough. You almost don't need Calamity and can get by with the Basher's animus instead. A Basher attacking in that same situation would have only 4 attacks, but they would each be dice +1 for a total of 35. I could analyze Nomads under Magnus 2, but an all-melee list can't beat him anyway. So Juggernauts then? That's only 1 less damage per attack, so the Basher or Night Troll might still one-round it with any spike at all. Earthborns are great with her kit but the point of this build is to trade cheaply, at least in terms of point costs.
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daveg
Light Addition
Posts: 67
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Post by daveg on Dec 28, 2018 19:32:41 GMT
ryssen2 Let's look at a Slayer under Gaspy 3. Grissel might need to boost to hit with Calamity but she can still camp 2 and have the Runebearer cast Boundless Charge. A Mauler can cast Rage and the KSB can opt for STR. After all of that, a Night Troll has three initials at 16/16/15 against a more manageable 11/17. You can charge for free and might as well lead with the bite, for 8 damage on an average roll. You can then do up to 5 attacks with the claws at an average of 6 damage each. So that all adds up to 38, which is way more than enough. You almost don't need Calamity and can get by with the Basher's animus instead. A Basher attacking in that same situation would have only 4 attacks, but they would each be dice +1 for a total of 35. I could analyze Nomads under Magnus 2, but an all-melee list can't beat him anyway. So Juggernauts then? That's only 1 less damage per attack, so the Basher or Night Troll might still one-round it with any spike at all. Earthborns are great with her kit but the point of this build is to trade cheaply, at least in terms of point costs. Wouldn't the Basher be dice -4 if he uses his animus or -2 if you did land Calamity? If you landed Calamity, it stand's to reason that you wouldn't bother with his animus. Also important for this discussion are two points: 1) The slayers threat farther than either a night troll (claws and teeth) and the basher assuming both are buffed with their caster's respective spells 2) If Grissel1 goes down to two transfers and puts enough beasts into the Slayer's to beat them up, she has to be very careful about being Hellfire'd to death afterwords.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Dec 29, 2018 2:59:50 GMT
daveg It is inlikely that you would need both Calamity and the animus, which is why I assumed you'd have Rage on the Basher as well as Stone Strength. Its one initial attack hits at ps 14 base so that would be 18 vs the Slayer's base ARM of 17. Unyielding and Calamity would cancel each other out. If you really need to out-threat a Slayer, Boundless Charge and Rush can stack. I'm sure there's a way to squeeze Lanyssa or an Earthborn in there too. Mulg can either arc Calamity so Grissel can stay behind a building or something or stay close to her and rile a few for Arcane Vortex.
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Post by ryssen2 on Jan 2, 2019 16:10:10 GMT
daveg It is inlikely that you would need both Calamity and the animus, which is why I assumed you'd have Rage on the Basher as well as Stone Strength. Its one initial attack hits at ps 14 base so that would be 18 vs the Slayer's base ARM of 17. Unyielding and Calamity would cancel each other out. If you really need to out-threat a Slayer, Boundless Charge and Rush can stack. I'm sure there's a way to squeeze Lanyssa or an Earthborn in there too. Mulg can either arc Calamity so Grissel can stay behind a building or something or stay close to her and rile a few for Arcane Vortex. So now we have Mulg, Mauler, Axer, Max stone+Elder and 4 fury from Grissel to for a night troll to out threat and kill a Slayer. I do not think this is something I would like to do. But more to the topic. The tournament went well for Grissel, winning her two games with the list I posted in the beginning. The list didnt feel quite right, I think 2xbears and 2xmin long riders were a bit much. However, the long threat ranges with slams and the repo+hoof it was really neat and worked well. I think the list is rather prone to quality shooting, so I have to think on how to make it better in that regards. But I actually felt like it was something to maybe work further on and not abandon in its entirety. Im not really sure which way to go or what we have against shooting, Maybe maxing one of the long riders would be good, but Im not sure how to fit it in. Anyways, I think will have to try more, but it was definitely above my expectations.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Jan 3, 2019 1:24:34 GMT
ryssen2 The Night Troll thing is more a novelty than anything, but FWIW that might help keep your actual losses low. And it's not like those models do nothing else. They are the second line. Mulg can arc multiple spells, or kill something then channel, and so on. Bears also have three attacks and they get more mileage out of Hoof It so that probably is the way to go.
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Post by ryssen2 on Jan 3, 2019 6:54:31 GMT
ryssen2 The Night Troll thing is more a novelty than anything, but FWIW that might help keep your actual losses low. And it's not like those models do nothing else. They are the second line. Mulg can arc multiple spells, or kill something then channel, and so on. Bears also have three attacks and they get more mileage out of Hoof It so that probably is the way to go. While it is true the bears have more attacks, the lack of repo means they are only 9 inches from what they attacked, while the long riders can be 11.5+d6 from a slammed taget. There are strengths and weaknessess of using it on both units. I will need to think on where to go with the list.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Jan 3, 2019 10:24:50 GMT
ryssen2 The Night Troll thing is more a novelty than anything, but FWIW that might help keep your actual losses low. And it's not like those models do nothing else. They are the second line. Mulg can arc multiple spells, or kill something then channel, and so on. Bears also have three attacks and they get more mileage out of Hoof It so that probably is the way to go. While it is true the bears have more attacks, the lack of repo means they are only 9 inches from what they attacked, while the long riders can be 11.5+d6 from a slammed taget. There are strengths and weaknessess of using it on both units. I will need to think on where to go with the list. No, I mean that you're probably better off with SOTN than POD, but what else is new? :P
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Post by ryssen2 on Jan 3, 2019 17:16:20 GMT
No, I mean that you're probably better off with SOTN than POD, but what else is new? Sad but true! One of the main reasons for SOtn is also the free upkeep on rök so that she can safely throw out 2 boundless. I hope that we get a cid soon to increase our playable themes to three.
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