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Post by zwergenkrieger on Nov 30, 2018 16:48:42 GMT
Hi everybody,
don´t exactly know why, but I just ordered Kallus2, The Twins (epic Rhyas+Saeryn) and pThagrosh, simply because I like the look of these models. Well, now I need some beasts and units to build an army. Therefore I like to ask some questions:
1.) Which beasts do I need for the named Warlocks? 2.) Which units? 3.) Any mandatory solos? 4.) Should I get a battle box?
I like to get a base of models that work to some degree with the named Warlocks, it doesn´t have to be the strongest lists around, just a good selection of models to make first steps into Legion.
Any advice here?
Thanks in advance!
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thelat
Junior Strategist
Posts: 480 
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Post by thelat on Nov 30, 2018 18:08:05 GMT
With Kallus2 and pThagrosh, the Blightbringer is probably going to be high on your priority list. Both of them like the Primal Terrors theme, which doubles down on the need for a Blightbringer. I'll let other chime on on the twins.
As for solos, Forsaken tend to make it into a lot of lists. Deathstalkers in pairs are great, but consider theme restrictions. I like Craelix a lot, but theme restrictions are a thing.
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Post by chillychinaman on Nov 30, 2018 20:31:49 GMT
With Kallus2 and pThagrosh, the Blightbringer is probably going to be high on your priority list. Both of them like the Primal Terrors theme, which doubles down on the need for a Blightbringer. I'll let other chime on on the twins. On the topic of Primal Terrors, if you have the wallet for it, a unit or two of Chosen work well, otherwise either of the other two Ogrun varieties are pretty viable post CID. Back to your questions, here would be my own responses: 1) Typhon is amazing, and might even be worth going out of theme depending on how the rest of your collection looks like and your competitive aspirations. Zuriel, while I love him, is mostly optional for the Twins. He is one of two heavies allowable in Children of the Dragon is your jam, and all-around he's decent but suffers from jack-of-all trades, master of none syndrome. 2) Any Ogrun would work decently with the chosen warlocks. Since they can't boost damage, only accuracy, coupled with Ogrun hit buffs, the Twins would probably prefer Nyss units. 3) Solos kinda depends on the theme/list you want, but Forsaken are only forbidden in Children so they'd be a good start. 4) I'd say unless you have a particular plan in mind, pass on both the Mk2 and Mk3 battleboxes unless you can find them cheap. Outside of Vayl/Lylyth the Bolt Thrower is not in a good place right now, neither are Shredders. And while, Lylyth1 is potent, Kryssa is pretty niche in my opinion. That leaves you with the Carnivean and Neraph which are better bought standalone for the optional parts to build other beasts. |
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Post by Falcen on Dec 6, 2018 18:54:34 GMT
With Twins and pThags I think about the Blight Bringer too.
But biggest question is: what themes do you want to play first? Primal Terrors and Oracle's of Annihilation are the most common ones.
PT basically builds itself with Blight Bringer, Chosen and Rotwings. The other Ogrun units are optional but legit if you want them.
For OoA there are different routes, double Throne or beast heavy.
The Legion battle box gives you good bang for your bucks, but only if you want to own Bolt Thrower or Neraph.
So... any idea what kind of list you want to build up first?
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Post by zwergenkrieger on Dec 14, 2018 11:22:07 GMT
First, thanks for all your answers. For OoA there are different routes, double Throne or beast heavy. So... any idea what kind of list you want to build up first? Well, regarding possible themes: I do not want to run the mainstream, i.e. Primal Terrors. Don't like to be that guy.  In addition, in my main faction (minions) I alteady run a medium based infantry force (Posse Spam) and therefore I like to brach out. Third reason: if I'd ever go with a 2nd heavy infantry army it would be Khadors Amored Corps. The 2 Thrones of Everblight list... Can I hear more about it? I think the Throne is a great looking piece and I can imagine buying two of them. That beeing said I'm leaning towards the following options: - cavalry - dude "spam" - shooting - colossal Simply because that's everything I miss in Minions and therefore it would give me a new style of play. |
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Post by voidbender on Dec 14, 2018 13:22:16 GMT
Well, regarding possible themes: I do not want to run the mainstream, i.e. Primal Terrors. Don't like to be that guy. In addition, in my main faction (minions) I alteady run a medium based infantry force (Posse Spam) and therefore I like to brach out. Third reason: if I'd ever go with a 2nd heavy infantry army it would be Khadors Amored Corps. The 2 Thrones of Everblight list... Can I hear more about it? I think the Throne is a great looking piece and I can imagine buying two of them. That beeing said I'm leaning towards the following options: - cavalry - dude "spam" - shooting - colossal Simply because that's everything I miss in Minions and therefore it would give me a new style of play. In that case, you are probably looking at either Ravens of War or Children of the Dragon. They are our least popular themes, but there can be good lists there. I think that the primary issue is that you will have comparatively few viable builds per dollar spent. Aside from Chosen in PT, our only other cavalry are Raptors. They are good cavalry, but are only in Ravens and Children. Kallus1 can run a powerful list in Ravens of War with double Raptors, double Grotesques, double Angelius, and double Hellmouth. I substituted Strider Blightblades for one grotesque unit to good effect. He probably could be pretty good in Children as well: you can get better, but slower, single wound infantry, but you also lose the hellmouths which are often legion's way of not losing on scenario when we go 2nd. Thagrosh1 can run a good list in Children, with the 3 character beasts he can bring. He also supports raptors pretty well, and hex hunters which are also available. There are no gargantuans in that theme though. Finally, one other option would be to go for hex hunters and ice witches in oracles. I've done ok with Kallus1 there, but I suspect this path to be the middle of the road in all ways. No warlock will be terrible in oracles, none of the infantry are bad, especially with apparition from the theme, and all of your purchases will have more options for use. However, infantry casters/lists won't be as powerfully skewed and will have very limited options, and there are no cavalry. |
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Post by Falcen on Dec 14, 2018 13:47:18 GMT
Okay, so I'm assuming you prefer lists that are built with synergy in mind, but not necessarily the hot stuff for tournaments.
Thrones are good for several reasons. First, they don't need fury management, therefore they are handy when your list already has enough beasts. Second, for 15pts they hit like a heavy beast, they can not boost but they also work well against infantry thanks to their magic abilities and Necrophage. Third, they can benefit from buffs not aimed at warbeasts. Good support models for them are the Naga Nightlurker (for their Animus) and Bog Trog Mist Speaker (for its Guidance spell).
Cavalry: We have two cavalry units, the Chosen (only in PT) and Raptors, both are good units. Raptors can be played in Children of the Dragon (CoD) and Ravens of War, they are a flexible unit. Their ranged weapon are nice and usually used as long as possible (move forward, shoot, move back with Reposition), but thanks to Weapon Master they can hit in melee too, they just won't survive there for long.
Colossal: Sadly, your options for colossals are rather limited. The Blightbringer is a great model, but its defining role is support for melee infantry. The BB works extremly well with the twins btw (you can read through the "Tao of the twins" thread), even outside of PT. The Archangel's model looks fantastic, its offensive abilities are okay, but its very delicate and tends to die to fast. Basically it's the biggest scalpel you can get. Most of the times you'll be better off using two heavies instead. For casual games its fine enough though, if you want to play it. Works well enough with caster who have a scalpel approach anyway.
Shooting: except some infantry options, most of our stuff has shooting abilities. Therefore that's nearly always part of Legion's gameplan. Lists that solely focus on shooting became rarer in MK3 though, best bet is Lylyth3. She can be played well in Oracles with Angelii, Carniveans and/or Ravagores as her main fighting force. Personally, she was my main caster before themes became dominant.
€: There's also a Lylyth1 CoD list with double Raptors floating around... seems to be fine enough.
dude "spam": Well, one could say PT is a dude spam... I have not played dude spam since themes became the main route to play. Before that I've played/seen Kallus1 and Thags1 with double Swordsmen and some screening unit(s). Should be possible in CoD, maybe even Ravens?
Looking at the casters you've bought I recommend starting with Thags1. He's a forgiving warlock, offers an allround package (except to-hit buffs, but those you can get from other sources) and can be played in multiple themes. I love the twins, but they are a demanding/difficult warlock and need very specific models in their list (you'll find a lot of knowledge in the mentioned "Tao of the Twins" thread). I can not say much about Kallus2, he looks like a fun combined arms warlock, but I don't have any experience with him.
Approaches I can see for Thags1 are: CoD with minimal beasts (Azrael, Zuriel, Bolt Thrower or Typhon), Swordsmen/Raptors as fighting force, Hex Hunters as screening and BFS/Ice Witches for support.
Oracles with double Thrones (they love his Death Shroud aura and STR buff), some beasts of your choosing (probably Carnivean/Typhon/Naga), Ice Witches for support, optionally Hex Hunters for screening.
Oracles as a beast heavy list: definitly Typhon, Carnivean, Seraph, but you can branch out to less often seen beasts like the Scythean too. Many different set ups possible there.
In short: Oracles if you want to play with beasts and/or battle engines. CoD if you want to play more infantry. Personally I would start with Oracles, because it's our most flexible theme and depending on your choice of warlock/beasts/battle engine the lists can look very different. CoD tends to always have the same beasts and only slight variation in their unit choices. Imho most of our casters fit well into Oracles too, fewer in CoD.
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In addition, in my main faction (minions) I alteady run a medium based infantry force (Posse Spam) and therefore I like to brach out. Third reason: if I'd ever go with a 2nd heavy infantry army it would be Khadors Amored Corps.