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Post by mydnight on Nov 21, 2018 10:57:59 GMT
Girded is going to allow one unit to babysit some solos, a UA, or the caster instead of keeping a paladin or Vilmon back, if nothing else. That isn't totally dumpy, but it's an expensive baby sitting unit. I'm really hoping for Defensive Strike or allowing them to gain Vilmon's Righteous Vengeance. None of those need blast immunity. Uh oh. Someone mentioned 'girded' and 'paladin' in the same sentence again.
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privvy
Junior Strategist
Formerly The Nomad on PP's forums
Posts: 317
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Post by privvy on Nov 21, 2018 14:46:06 GMT
Monks, Idrian UA after minifeat, any lower ARM casters, and Zealot UA, would all like blast immunity. While I agree that they don't need it, I also prefer my pieces not die to a boosted blast. Now that the week 2.5 update is out though, Shield Guard and 7 points makes a unit of these guys pretty alright to replace our more expensive shield guard options. Their immunity to movement and place effects while B2B makes them decent scenario pieces, too. It's objectively better to use a 2.3 point model that doesn't have great melee output to girded babysit than a weapon master solo that is better off doing other things, it's pretty much a free benefit in the theme since you're taking at least one champion anyway. Girded is a dump rule but it's gold that one time you really need it. I almost forgot that those terms together trigger some people
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Post by paradox on Nov 21, 2018 18:00:44 GMT
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Post by macdaddy on Nov 21, 2018 18:23:04 GMT
Based on your feedback Perhaps increase cost to 8 and give them tough to compensate for the point increase?
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Post by paradox on Nov 21, 2018 18:34:19 GMT
Based on your feedback Perhaps increase cost to 8 and give them tough to compensate for the point increase? If you add Tough I think they are easily 9. They are too good for 7pts in 2.5. A very good 8 though.
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Post by macdaddy on Nov 21, 2018 18:51:43 GMT
Based on your feedback Perhaps increase cost to 8 and give them tough to compensate for the point increase? If you add Tough I think they are easily 9. They are too good for 7pts in 2.5. A very good 8 though. I dunno, after one dies they lose so much I question them at 8. Ill have to play them though into some of the tougher lists.
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Post by paradox on Nov 21, 2018 19:06:22 GMT
If you add Tough I think they are easily 9. They are too good for 7pts in 2.5. A very good 8 though. I dunno, after one dies they lose so much I question them at 8. Ill have to play them though into some of the tougher lists. Shield guard gives them a strong, persistent role. No push/pull makes the remaining ARM much more meaningful. They definitely are too good at 7.
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Post by mydnight on Nov 21, 2018 20:17:28 GMT
My main concern is that PP removes shield guard after the cid and replaces it with something useless They should just give them Durst's second part of feat (transferring hits to other members) or sanguine bond and call it a day.
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Post by paradox on Nov 21, 2018 20:30:58 GMT
My main concern is that PP removes shield guard after the cid and replaces it with something useless I would not be too surprised. 3 units makes the list really strong into alot of gunlines/shooting.
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Post by macdaddy on Nov 22, 2018 0:31:45 GMT
My main concern is that PP removes shield guard after the cid and replaces it with something useless I would not be too surprised. 3 units makes the list really strong into alot of gunlines/shooting. I still would never run more than 2 Units.
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Post by paradox on Nov 24, 2018 18:24:52 GMT
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Post by macdaddy on Nov 24, 2018 21:13:24 GMT
You still don’t think they need a higher attack volume?
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Post by paradox on Nov 24, 2018 23:04:46 GMT
You still don’t think they need a higher attack volume? We're not getting it, so does it matter? It's been made pretty clear on that front. I'm pretty happy as they are. Consider, Champ has: A. PS16 charge at 2", POW12 impact at 1/2", PS12 shield at 1/2", or B. PS12WM sword at 1", POW12 mount at 1/2" PS12 shield at 1/2" Initiate unit has PS13 x3 at 2" or PS16 at 2". The Champ probably has the edge on sheer damage output, but not really on volume, especially on charges where you may or may not get impact, or even get 1/2" range for shield punches. He does have more SPD, but people are often going to edge around his max threat because of that. Initiates are also +1ARM in formation, without suffering for having a shield (a fact that came up in a recent CID game) and regardless of back arc. So not's not too bad RE volume on pts. And shield guard adds alot of utility to the unit to. Maybe in some games it's just handy in fouling up a few random guns. But having around a dozen shield guards in a list vs a dedicated gunline? It drives some people nuts. It's upped FM games vs stronger gun lines lot. With Practiced Maneuvers to help with formation, and the fix to Unbreakable Wall, I think 8pts is the right spot for them. You want to think about what youre bringing and your goals. I'd consider trying some lists sans additional paladins, or maybe without champs, where these guys help deliver a force. Like, Amon suddenly has maybe some game with 21-24pts of initiates in FM plus a heavy line. They are enough to net a free Vilmon, and he can skip on devouts to bring heavies. They can die to hand out HoV to those jacks, and keep Amon safe from guns. Or, as I've been doing alot so far, you just wedge these guys into the lines to escort paladins, eat shots, etc, then work as a flexible attack option to clear ranks for things to move out. They've really worked well since 2.5 hit and I like them.
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Post by greytemplar on Nov 24, 2018 23:36:51 GMT
I am extra happy that they cannot be placed. I HATE TELEKINESIS!!!
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Post by macdaddy on Nov 25, 2018 1:01:46 GMT
paradox my main concern is them having minimal impact outside of the occasional SG and Roadblock. In my games my opponent just ignored them and jammed my force, so giving them something like Vengeance or Cleave helps alleviate how susceptible an army is to getting jammed when you take 1-3 initiates (or 30% of your non BG points) it really hampers your attack volume which is rough in the modern meta of tough infantry (by tough I mean good stats not just the tough rule.) EG: in my game my opponent just ran at me and jammed me hard and I was unable to unjam myself. With RV or Cleave or Native Vengeance the only issue I have with the unit is solved. And for a cost increase I don’t see how that’s out of scope or makes them offensive powerhouses. Soles was against them getting RV from Villmon, but having a similar affect built In(aka vengeance) was not taken off the table entirely. I think they are fine at 7 since they have minimal offensive impact and are so easy to jam/ignore. Outside of Durst they cap at Arm 21 and once one dies they are a heck of a lot easier to kill so without more offensive impact or a fix to Unbreakable wall to let them not get weak when one dies I don’t see them justified at 8. I still think Durst, Cyrenia and Harby make them shine. I am planning on running then with Cyrenia again soon with 2.5 Rules so I’ll try to get a report up before monday
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