karpfen
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 3
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Post by karpfen on Nov 17, 2018 10:07:04 GMT
In regards to Zaadesh2, he can be built to present a truly unique playstyle, namely out-of-activation shenanigans. It's battlegroup centric, usually with some variation of Sentries, Soldiers, and Archidons. Derp Turtles can get in on the fun under feat as well. ... boozy: Thank you for your explanation of Zaadesh2's. It makes now, before i just saw the Counter Charges that Axis, Karchev, Borka2 and some others bring as well. ... For Ret, I used to play a battlegroup heavy list with Rahn (four heavies/two lights) which was pretty nifty... but then, Rahn is always fun...! Oh, you're immune to spells (for whatever reason)... never mind, I'll just TK my entire army forwards...! germanicus: Telekinesis does indeed look like fun. And the Retribution Jack theme allows those battle mages who can push and pull as well. Krueger2 in Bones of Orboros has wolds which can use telekinesis through geomancy as well. But Sturm&Drang, Hayley and Scaverous have the spell as well and there are some feats which do similar stuff. So, there are many choices in even that particular regard. I am hopelessly over analysing at this point. Guess, i will have to play a few further games with borrowed stuff to clear my head.^^
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germanicus
Junior Strategist
No jokes round ear...
Posts: 358
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Post by germanicus on Nov 17, 2018 14:52:54 GMT
germanicus : Telekinesis does indeed look like fun. And the Retribution Jack theme allows those battle mages who can push and pull as well. Krueger2 in Bones of Orboros has wolds which can use telekinesis through geomancy as well. But Sturm&Drang, Hayley and Scaverous have the spell as well and there are some feats which do similar stuff. So, there are many choices in even that particular regard. I am hopelessly over analysing at this point. Guess, i will have to play a few further games with borrowed stuff to clear my head.^^ No, indeed, Telekinesis is widely considered to be the single most versatile spell in the game, but different casters get different mileage out of it. Rahn, weirdly, gets some of the least value out of it in terms of sheer spamming of it. Scav - access to Spell Slave and his cost reduction feat means he can reliably spew out at least nine on feat turn care of an attachment (whichever one he chooses to take), DJ and a further one each for however many souls he gets. Kru2 - Geomancy and the usual 2-3 Woldwardens (force once and boost, so nice) plus a couple himself makes table-wide use of it. Haley2 - well, hum... the less said about her the better, but she's still fairly solid despite being nerfed. S&D - he is objectively... not very good as his sane and demented forms are a very difficult puzzle to solve, and Farrow are a sort of limited faction and Sturm's lack of access to channellers or Spiritual Conduit makes his use of TK limited to friendlies So S&D aside, Rahn typically doesn't cast TK as much as the others. Don't worry about over-analysing, play a faction and theme that appeals, you're fortunate to have the opportunity to borrow before buying. Anyway, that aside, specifically for battlegroup-centric casters, of the Telekinesis casters, only Kru2 is capable of genuinely running a large-ish battlegroup, the others only want moderate or even small battlegroups (particularly S&D, who has access to only one lesser and no marshals because Hordes). One thing I would say is that you shouldn't get hung up on particular abilities because a field-marshal or spell doesn't always give a good indication of whether a caster or lock is battlegroup driven or wants a warnoun heavy list. Like, Rahn is not actually a battlegroup caster at all. He doesn't want to allocate, ever, and outside of Force Blast (I've used that... twice, maybe, in the however many dozen games I've played with him) does nothing for his battlegroup that he can't do for units. Conversely, Vyros2 is Ret's poster boy battlegroup caster (Helynna is the poster-girl if anyone wants to correct me), even though he does literally one and only one thing for his myrmidons (that he can't do for the rest of his army)! He supports some units surprisingly well (read: Dawnguard Sentinels). However, Ret is an odd-child in WMH because, Vyre casters notwithstanding, any caster can go battlegroup heavy in Forges of War due to the prevalence of Empower in-faction. There are variants, but this list is fun, if kinda meh, but it neatly illustrates my point (and Mk2 FW players will know what I'm thinking): Kaelyssa; Silly Willy; Hydra; 3 Manticores; Phoenix; 3 Arcanists; House Shyeel Artificer; House Shyeel Arcanists; & Cylena Raefyll + Soulless Escort. Still, I'm surprised no-one picked up on your Minion lessers comment. Rask Super-friends is a well known Will Work For Food list and it is really good. Rask has a brilliant timewalk feat and he helps the lessers' beasts pack quite a punch, despite not really wanting a large BG himself. There's a podcast (Warnouns of Renown... I think) where the Rask Super-friends list is dissected. As for Zaadesh2, he's fun because of that amusing combo of Defensive Strike and Countercharge, which can cause headaches when confronting his feat, most opponents can usually deal with one, but not the other (especially when Tibbers gets involved). He's difficult to master competitively though due to clock, as it takes a butt load of practise to make the best use of feat and to do so quickly. Still fun though. ... My post has a point somewhere, so I'll just re-read your OP... ... If you're drawn to the game by the heavies, pick the faction whose heavies you like the look of most, and there will be a lock or caster that can support them (though naturally, certain heavies, within a faction, that is, have a higher popularity than others due to how SR scenarios work and in-theme synergies etc.).
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Post by albertairish on Nov 17, 2018 15:21:31 GMT
Rask with 3 or 4 Lesser Warlocks is amazingly fun, versatile and competitive.
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Post by Azahul on Nov 17, 2018 23:44:18 GMT
S&D - he is objectively... not very good as his sane and demented forms are a very difficult puzzle to solve, and Farrow are a sort of limited faction and Sturm's lack of access to channellers or Spiritual Conduit makes his use of TK limited to friendlies I would actually say Sturm and Drang is in a pretty good place right now. The Blindwater releases from the start of the year did a lot to break open his kit, and I found I was able to make some pretty competitive WWFF lists with him after that. The main problem was that he really wants a huge based model to stick Polarity Shield on, and the best option we had was a Meat Thresher. That basically locked him into an anti-infantry build and cost him a free solo. The release of Underchief Mire has given him (comparatively) easy access to the Dracodile though, and I've been finding it to be a strong competitive list capable of handling a pretty sizable chunk of the meta. Like Rask, the list generally ends up with only a couple of Warbeasts on Sturm, and multiple Lesser Warlocks. After Underchief Mire you probably plump for Dahlia and Skarath, because Skarath loves TK and Vision, and then any one of the other three can fill in the rest of the list. Wrongeye and Snapjaw gives you a solid heavy and a back-up Gator Warlock in case Mire gets sniped out, Rorsh and Brine are bonkers on a TK Warlock, and even Brun and Lug have an interesting ability to help out the rest of the list with their hit-and-run shenanigans and widespread knockdown tools. The original Blindwater releases, namely the Soul Slave and the Bone Shrine, do a lot as well by giving Sturm the ability to channel spells and the Soul Slave giving him a free TK and upkeep every turn. The Soul Slave even makes Drang semi-appealing late game, because you can swap to Drang and still have one cast of TK up your sleeve. And the Bone Shrines, while Immobile, do have the entertaining trick of being able to be placed by TK giving them a touch of mobility otherwise lacking when used by other Warlocks. And between the Fury you can take from the Bone Shrine, the free upkeep from the Soul Slave, and the free TK, you've got access to 4 Fury more than their initial card would appear to suggest. Overall I'd say Sturm and Drang are in the top two Farrow Warlocks, getting pretty close in strength to Arkadius. Arkadius, of course, is also a spectacularly fun Warbeast heavy Warlock, and beautifully I believe they generally compliment each other well. And neither of them are far behind Rask, and with both Sturm and Drang and Rask liking the Lesser Warlocks there's a happy bit of overlap between those two lists.
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on Nov 18, 2018 2:49:07 GMT
this is one of dose thread swhere everybody names random warcassters they like so i will say gralye the fast rider cuz he's fun i think. i've never seen him played before but it bet I somebody every decided to do that that it would be fun
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Post by Charistoph on Nov 18, 2018 4:05:41 GMT
S&D - he is objectively... not very good as his sane and demented forms are a very difficult puzzle to solve, and Farrow are a sort of limited faction and Sturm's lack of access to channellers or Spiritual Conduit makes his use of TK limited to friendlies I don't know. This is about being fun, and one of the most fun armies to play against in the Warhammers are the Orcs/Orks. Just running with the flow of it can make for some very interesting and fun experiences.
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