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Post by paradox on Nov 7, 2018 13:30:46 GMT
I don't see why you want Revelator in stead of Judicator especially as you have Madelyn so blazing earth's are not that relevant. And you are lacking wracks. I think at least 2 wracks are mandatory, especially without Hierophant. I have just started Reznik2 and played only one game him with similar list, but Rhover&co+Gade in stead of Templar. (and Hierophant, not Madelyn) But definitely have to test Madelyn soon I have Reznik2 painted and really start testin him. Its a fair point, but I like the redundancy of protection (seems way too easy to lose Maddy to me, but Im working from Hasmals suggestions). I also like the accuracy and damage. Being effective RAT8 and POW18 on the big guns is better than effective RAT4 with extra die/drop. Its just raw damage output than can skip boosting to hit. Plus, its more of a close in shooter, so will be in places Reznik wants to go, to help shelter flanks. And Feretory lets you skip Rhoven and Spellpiercer, allowing Rez to camp more. In theory, anyway.
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Hashmal
Junior Strategist
Posts: 557
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Post by Hashmal on Nov 7, 2018 17:19:25 GMT
I'd go a step further and say that there are only a couple of 'casters who can make good use of a Revelator over a Judicator and Reznik2 is one of them. Blazing Earth is important vs. the Retribution Shadows matchup. Feretory denies them their standard defensive tech and RAT 8 means that you're hitting them even behind cover on boosted 10s. The idea is to tag two front leading models to stymie the rest of the squad. And it stuffs Infiltrators. Board control is never bad tech to have and the Protectorate has very, very little of it. It is useful for more than just keeping Reznik2 safe. I was surprised at how easy it is to keep Madelyn safe, but there's an obvious reason why. The typical way to kill her is to overwhelm with shooting so that Sucker! is exhausted or scalpel her out with a spell. Line of sight becomes the issue for the shooting option: Reznik2's fat base hides her from a lot of quality shooting. And what does get through is defended as I mentioned. You realistically shouldn't be looking at things like a full squad of Trencher Long Gunners getting to unload on her if it's played right. And for lists packing some Shadow Fire, well I did advocate taking a Shield Guard or two with him, because it's pretty easy for anyone to get a quality Magical shot or two onto Reznik2 each turn and you don't want him ground down like that. I piloted this list into Haley3 Gravediggers with 1x Trencher Infantry, 1x Trencher Long Gunners, 2x Express Teams, Aiyana & Holt, and an army full of solos with guns against one of the best Cygnar players in the country (and a handsome gentleman at that) and I had no issue keeping her safe using the aforementioned tactics. The matchup went pear shaped for him pretty quick. You do have to watch for cagey spells against certain factions like Circle and Ret, but I already rated those matchups as not super great for Reznik2. Scourge is kind of beautiful there because his Bond means that he can play as a defensive piece for Reznik2 with the potential for serious burst offensive speed. Versus Ret, the main threat is the MHSF minifeat. You just have to deal with that before it becomes relevant. It's not easy, admittedly, but that's already a pretty uphill fight for Reznik2. 'dox, I like that Reznik2 list and think it will do great things for you into the right matchups. For reference, here's what I've been running. I am likely to drop a Mechanik and Wrack to get two min Choir instead, because the max Choir is very clunky to play on the table and prevents spreading out thanks to CMD 6 (one of the most underrated nerfs in Mk. 3, imo). conflictchamber.com/#c2201b_-0de79x9x9x3I249llM243t3t3z3B3B303G3HProtectorate Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Creator's Might [Reznik 2] Servath Reznik, Wrath of Ages [+29] - Repenter [8] - Repenter [8] - Repenter [8] - Scourge of Heresy [16] - Templar [15] - Madelyn Corbeau, Ordic Courtesan [4] Scrutator Potentate Severius [0(6)] - Templar [15] Vassal Mechanik [1] Vassal Mechanik [1] Vassal of Menoth [0(3)] Wrack [1] Wrack [1] Choir of Menoth (max) [6] Idrian Skirmishers (max) [15] - Idrian Skirmisher Chieftain & Guide [5]
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moquan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 193
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Post by moquan on Nov 7, 2018 18:13:32 GMT
What about a Warder instead of a Vassal?
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Hashmal
Junior Strategist
Posts: 557
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Post by Hashmal on Nov 7, 2018 18:46:08 GMT
I don't own one yet because I am bad.
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moquan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 193
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Post by moquan on Nov 7, 2018 19:16:50 GMT
I don't own one yet because I am bad. Hypothetically, would it be an upgrade?
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Hashmal
Junior Strategist
Posts: 557
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Post by Hashmal on Nov 7, 2018 19:44:31 GMT
Probably. Empower is pretty nice to help shunt some of the focus strain off Reznik2, but there's something to be said for three Shield Guards and much improved scenario presence. The problem with the Vassal is that the rest of his abilities are pretty lackluster and he's a squishy solo to flag camp, whereas the Warder's suite of abilities are frequently relevant. You can rely on Reznik2 to solidly defend a flag, but you're probably not playing to his strengths by doing that.
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Post by greytemplar on Nov 8, 2018 4:08:19 GMT
I think you really need to discuss the exemplar warder now, too. Especially because it’s available in CM and EI. Bodyguard helps shore up his melee defense where Maddie cant, and hes an Inhuman Resolve Shield Guard. Should definitely be a very strong consideration. Its not like you have to pick between a Warder and Madelyn either. You can take both.
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Hashmal
Junior Strategist
Posts: 557
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Post by Hashmal on Nov 8, 2018 8:04:01 GMT
Too true. I was very happy to see it leave CID as our personal version of the Ogryn Bokur.
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Post by mydnight on Nov 8, 2018 8:32:56 GMT
I'd go a step further and say that there are only a couple of 'casters who can make good use of a Revelator over a Judicator and Reznik2 is one of them. Blazing Earth is important vs. the Retribution Shadows matchup. Feretory denies them their standard defensive tech and RAT 8 means that you're hitting them even behind cover on boosted 10s. The idea is to tag two front leading models to stymie the rest of the squad. And it stuffs Infiltrators. Board control is never bad tech to have and the Protectorate has very, very little of it. It is useful for more than just keeping Reznik2 safe. I was surprised at how easy it is to keep Madelyn safe, but there's an obvious reason why. The typical way to kill her is to overwhelm with shooting so that Sucker! is exhausted or scalpel her out with a spell. Line of sight becomes the issue for the shooting option: Reznik2's fat base hides her from a lot of quality shooting. And what does get through is defended as I mentioned. You realistically shouldn't be looking at things like a full squad of Trencher Long Gunners getting to unload on her if it's played right. And for lists packing some Shadow Fire, well I did advocate taking a Shield Guard or two with him, because it's pretty easy for anyone to get a quality Magical shot or two onto Reznik2 each turn and you don't want him ground down like that. I piloted this list into Haley3 Gravediggers with 1x Trencher Infantry, 1x Trencher Long Gunners, 2x Express Teams, Aiyana & Holt, and an army full of solos with guns against one of the best Cygnar players in the country (and a handsome gentleman at that) and I had no issue keeping her safe using the aforementioned tactics. The matchup went pear shaped for him pretty quick. You do have to watch for cagey spells against certain factions like Circle and Ret, but I already rated those matchups as not super great for Reznik2. Scourge is kind of beautiful there because his Bond means that he can play as a defensive piece for Reznik2 with the potential for serious burst offensive speed. Versus Ret, the main threat is the MHSF minifeat. You just have to deal with that before it becomes relevant. It's not easy, admittedly, but that's already a pretty uphill fight for Reznik2. 'dox, I like that Reznik2 list and think it will do great things for you into the right matchups. For reference, here's what I've been running. I am likely to drop a Mechanik and Wrack to get two min Choir instead, because the max Choir is very clunky to play on the table and prevents spreading out thanks to CMD 6 (one of the most underrated nerfs in Mk. 3, imo). conflictchamber.com/#c2201b_-0de79x9x9x3I249llM243t3t3z3B3B303G3HProtectorate Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Creator's Might [Reznik 2] Servath Reznik, Wrath of Ages [+29] - Repenter [8] - Repenter [8] - Repenter [8] - Scourge of Heresy [16] - Templar [15] - Madelyn Corbeau, Ordic Courtesan [4] Scrutator Potentate Severius [0(6)] - Templar [15] Vassal Mechanik [1] Vassal Mechanik [1] Vassal of Menoth [0(3)] Wrack [1] Wrack [1] Choir of Menoth (max) [6] Idrian Skirmishers (max) [15] - Idrian Skirmisher Chieftain & Guide [5] Thoughts on a redeemer on him instead of only repenters?
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Hashmal
Junior Strategist
Posts: 557
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Post by Hashmal on Nov 8, 2018 8:46:29 GMT
You will find no more ardent of a supporter of the Redeemer than me. I love that little 'jack. You can certainly use one with Reznik2, but I have had trouble slotting one in recently. Blast immunity is expanding and most lists I see have infantry sitting at ARM 17+ or 16+ with boxes. Curse helps the little guy hit hard targets, but he's a bit static if he wants to aim. Also, good output from him requires decent Focus, which can hamper your other turn plans.
I would look to build a list around Redeemer use vs Repenter, so it doesn't slot super evenly in mine. We're I to put it in, I would take the Templar off Sevy0 and put the Redeemer on him. You lose out on Curse but full focus each turn plus Road to War helping you aim, shoot, and scoot are worth it.
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Post by macdaddy on Nov 8, 2018 14:57:46 GMT
You will find no more ardent of a supporter of the Redeemer than me. I love that little 'jack. You can certainly use one with Reznik2, but I have had trouble slotting one in recently. Blast immunity is expanding and most lists I see have infantry sitting at ARM 17+ or 16+ with boxes. Curse helps the little guy hit hard targets, but he's a bit static if he wants to aim. Also, good output from him requires decent Focus, which can hamper your other turn plans. I would look to build a list around Redeemer use vs Repenter, so it doesn't slot super evenly in mine. We're I to put it in, I would take the Templar off Sevy0 and put the Redeemer on him. You lose out on Curse but full focus each turn plus Road to War helping you aim, shoot, and scoot are worth it. Redeemer under Sevvy0 could be a solid option. RTW allows for aiming and retains some mobility, and He can load em up with focus.
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Post by paradox on Nov 8, 2018 15:03:37 GMT
I think you really need to discuss the exemplar warder now, too. Especially because it’s available in CM and EI. Bodyguard helps shore up his melee defense where Maddie cant, and hes an Inhuman Resolve Shield Guard. Should definitely be a very strong consideration. Its not like you have to pick between a Warder and Madelyn either. You can take both. Yes, but thats not what I meant. Maddie keeps things from hitting you. But when they can hit you is where the warder helps.
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Post by moridamn on Nov 8, 2018 15:46:54 GMT
I wanted to point out that in Maddie's write up you mention her using Sucker! onto Reznik2. You can't actually do that as he is not a warrior model.
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Hashmal
Junior Strategist
Posts: 557
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Post by Hashmal on Nov 8, 2018 19:08:37 GMT
That is correct and I learned that last night in fact. Still a powerful combo, but will be editing. In fact, that only increases the value of the Warder, who can be Sucker'd repeatedly even while on 0 wounds due to Inhuman Resolve.
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Post by macdaddy on Nov 8, 2018 19:43:07 GMT
That is correct and I learned that last night in fact. Still a powerful combo, but will be editing. In fact, that only increases the value of the Warder, who can be Sucker'd repeatedly even while on 0 wounds due to Inhuman Resolve. oh lord that's dirty....
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