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Post by smoothcriminal on Nov 10, 2018 18:13:47 GMT
Khador is considerably worse in solo tournaments where you can't hide it from all the annoying stuff.
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Post by Havock on Nov 11, 2018 1:50:23 GMT
I mean that they break some of the normal expectations you have from a faction, giving them a a massive leg up when people... Don't really know what to expect. The effect diminishes once people face them a couple of times, although they have been the proverbial (and I gurss literal) bogeyman for some time after their release.
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Post by hocestbellum on Nov 12, 2018 9:56:52 GMT
Khador is considerably worse in solo tournaments where you can't hide it from all the annoying stuff. Since the advent of AC Khador has been popping up with reasonable frequency in solo tournament top-3 placements. I think it's mostly down to the extra theme allowing a lot more list selection flexibility, but that's just supposition. I've personally found list pairing much easier since then. That said, I can't entirely refute your statement since I don't play team events; it might be that Khador is really much better in that format. But I don't think we're bad at solo tournaments these days
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Post by Havock on Nov 12, 2018 10:21:43 GMT
Bigger tournaments allow for more dodging though, and yes, I'd say at the moment Khador is the AC and/or WGK faction, biggest advantage AC gives us is a solid, allround list which can fight in a lot of matchups so the other list can be a bit harsher about asking questions.
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Post by Netherby on Nov 12, 2018 17:01:21 GMT
Top 3 doesn't really mean much. It's unfortunate that it's given so much weight.
The actual interesting stat would be top bracket placements, since the tie breakers for 2nd and 3rd are basically random.
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Post by sand20go on Nov 13, 2018 3:20:13 GMT
Too new a faction, people are still figuring out their toys and matchups. And while "well-tweaked", the faction doesn't break the game as much as Grymkin did/does. Huh? Grymkin breaks the game? They really aren't that good... They have a mechanic (Arcana) that is initially easier for the Grymkin player to master than the opponent. Which is true of pretty much every trick, since the player of the faction will get more practice with it than anyone else. Now if you plan and carry out the majority of your turn without considering the Arcana, it's quite possible your entire turn gets ruined at the crucial point. So it's pretty strong in that regard. But all of the Arcana are triggered by the opponent. So it's entirely up to you what Arcana you give them the opportunity to trigger and in what order. Which is a massive weakness in the system that you can exploit. CG is going to be similar. Granted they don't introduce a new mechanic, but they have a very high volume of rules per model. The CG player is going to understand the interactions much better than you will, which will lead to 'gotcha' situations. At first glance you may think: 'oh they just have these 3 or 4 attack types available on all these models'. But actually, while they have a lot of thematically similar abilities, they are actually functionally different in subtle ways. The same abilities aren't actually repeated all that much. IMHO It is because GC debuffs from Range (and with VERY little that fully shuts down that debuffing). In a "I go, you go" game it is massively powerful to be able to do significant damage at RNG 14. Just wait till you start seeing GearHart with double infantry.
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Post by sand20go on Nov 13, 2018 3:31:39 GMT
IMHO, it is because doing Khador well really requires, a lot more than other factions, a deep understanding of what the other guys stuff does so you get target priority down and force the best match ups (through deployment and tactical objectives in the scenario) that allow our innate stat advantage to "work" to our advantages. Meanwhile, there are a fair number of factions where this is NOT the case - where they build to ask a "question" and then just get with it.
CID (which HOPEFULLY will slow down a bit) just further exacerbates the challenge. To do Khador well you have to study and not get confused about what has changed. Add in "clocks start in 5 minutes" while you are still fiddling with Warroom trying to pull up all his models to understand interactions. Add in that we still are not a GREAT jamming and scenario faction (in a game where that can be a huge advantage and a great win condition given SR tie breaker rules).
I love khador. Loud Chis has shown that it is pretty darn viable. But it is also the case that the 100 or so guys that travel around the world playing Warmachine have reached a different conclusion as to what faction gives THEM the greatest chance to win.
(PS. But that is not 99.9% of our metas. You build your lists for what you will face. So, for example, I just rarely see Cryx. I don't build to take it exclusively on).
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