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Post by paradox on Nov 4, 2018 20:21:12 GMT
RE Kreoss3, what a phoned-in review. The fine focus on each aspect of the caster in a vacuum seems like the commentators have not really played this caster. There's some wild, cross-faction comparisons that pop out weirdly to downplay this caster, and a pretty obviously misses the deep plays available to him. He's among one of the best, most versatile casters in the faction. It does a disservice to the listener.
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Post by paradox on Nov 4, 2018 20:52:27 GMT
RE Durst, you do realize that you can, you know, ignore the awkward parts of the feat, right? Like, do you ACTUALLY try to get use out of Leadership Girded? NO wonder you don't like Faithful Masses.
Durst is bricky, and can be awkward and struggle on scenario. But trying to bubblewrap your jacks is normally a bad idea, and I'm not sure why you'd do it, other than "but I wanna use all the parts of my feat, all the time!" Which is a poor way to play. Amon is AMAZING in melee, but you're not putting him in melee unless it wins you the game.
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Post by paradox on Nov 4, 2018 21:09:44 GMT
RE Vindictus: Why are you wasting time discussing his melee? Like, do you try to melee with Sevy1? Seriously? I'm wasting time listening to this? Who cares? Like, let's go back to Durst and take a lesson. Don't waste time on trying to melee with him. You don't -to need to use every rule on every card all the time. And you've exposed your v=biases repeatedly by using this as a go-to tactic to sandbag a caster. I didn't hear any discussion about Harbie auto-hitting with her sword, but dying to melee in return. He's the best EI caster. I've won games in a row on scenario on top of 3 going 2nd with him. So I'm going to go with user error/lack of play experience. The example used, like "target a spray at a warjack, ignore the fact that magic sprays are pretty rare. So basically, I'm 1.5 hours in and all I hear are personal favorite being played up, ignoring or minimizing weaknesses in those cases, while bagging on pieces the commentaries don't like by bring up incredibly niche or unlikely matches to drag them down, usually exposing a lack of experience or ability with a given piece. At this point I'm just gritting my teeth through the last 1/2 hour to get to Feora, but I'm expecting to simply hear veiled confessions that you've never actually tried.
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Post by paradox on Nov 4, 2018 21:16:22 GMT
I was pretty much done commenting, but it sounds like you're playing Brand of Hersey wrong or backward.
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Post by paradox on Nov 4, 2018 21:28:21 GMT
One more point. Sounds like I heard a comment to Red Line FoS on Sev0. You can't. Red Lien is BG only
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Post by mydnight on Nov 4, 2018 23:50:16 GMT
There are definitely some playable options with Kreoss2 in CM. Curious about this. Aside from infantry spam EI lists, do you think Kreoss2 has potential in CM because of the accuracy bonus from feat and battlegroup counter charge for jacks? This left-field potential is intriguing.
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Post by paradox on Nov 5, 2018 0:16:25 GMT
There are definitely some playable options with Kreoss2 in CM. Curious about this. Aside from infantry spam EI lists, do you think Kreoss2 has potential in CM because of the accuracy bonus from feat and battlegroup counter charge for jacks? This left-field potential is intriguing. Dojoing some stuff up with Gaston this year, but counter charge and auto hitting with extra attacks both for strong play options. Just park IR on him for 14/19, Castigate into anyone that might think to spell assassinate, and he can do scary stuff if delivered.
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Post by paradox on Nov 5, 2018 0:25:53 GMT
For instance.
Theme: The Creator's Might 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Grand Exemplar Kreoss - WJ: +28 - Hierophant - PC: 3 - Crusader - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10) - Crusader - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10) - Crusader - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 8) - Crusader - PC: 10 - Crusader - PC: 10 - Crusader - PC: 10 - Fire of Salvation - PC: 14 - Devout - PC: 9
The Covenant of Menoth - PC: 0 Exemplar Warder - PC: 0 Scrutator Potentate Severius - PC: 0 - Dervish - PC: 7 Wrack - PC: 1 Wrack - PC: 1
Choir of Menoth - Leader & 3 Grunts: 4 Choir of Menoth - Leader & 3 Grunts: 4
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Post by mydnight on Nov 5, 2018 0:49:07 GMT
For instance. Theme: The Creator's Might 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army Grand Exemplar Kreoss - WJ: +28 - Hierophant - PC: 3 - Crusader - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10) - Crusader - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10) - Crusader - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 8) - Crusader - PC: 10 - Crusader - PC: 10 - Crusader - PC: 10 - Fire of Salvation - PC: 14 - Devout - PC: 9 The Covenant of Menoth - PC: 0 Exemplar Warder - PC: 0 Scrutator Potentate Severius - PC: 0 - Dervish - PC: 7 Wrack - PC: 1 Wrack - PC: 1 Choir of Menoth - Leader & 3 Grunts: 4 Choir of Menoth - Leader & 3 Grunts: 4 Interesting. So Kreoss2 can potentially do Tristan2 better than Tristan2? I would like to squeeze a vanquisher in there. Yes Vanquishers are overpriced, but that thresher coupled with Sev0's speed buff ...
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Post by macdaddy on Nov 5, 2018 1:31:40 GMT
For instance. Theme: The Creator's Might 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army Grand Exemplar Kreoss - WJ: +28 - Hierophant - PC: 3 - Crusader - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10) - Crusader - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10) - Crusader - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 8) - Crusader - PC: 10 - Crusader - PC: 10 - Crusader - PC: 10 - Fire of Salvation - PC: 14 - Devout - PC: 9 The Covenant of Menoth - PC: 0 Exemplar Warder - PC: 0 Scrutator Potentate Severius - PC: 0 - Dervish - PC: 7 Wrack - PC: 1 Wrack - PC: 1 Choir of Menoth - Leader & 3 Grunts: 4 Choir of Menoth - Leader & 3 Grunts: 4 How are you delivering the army with no threat extebder and Pathfinder. Why are you not just playing Amon with a Devout? Literally all Kreoss does is provide countercharge, castigate and feat. Which works if your jacks aren’t all spd 4 1” reach and Arm 19. Now Kreoss2 in Guardians seems like a really good Scenario list. Steady tough Flameguard with sacrosanct seems and IR seems legit. Feat helps you murder most things save for really heavy targets. I agree 100% about durst and Kreoss3. Both amazing and versatile casters. Durst EI And Durst FM are both fantastic lists with multiple builds. (FM more limited than EI though) Wanna start our own podcast?
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Post by octaviusmaximus on Nov 5, 2018 5:10:38 GMT
For instance. Theme: The Creator's Might 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army Grand Exemplar Kreoss - WJ: +28 - Hierophant - PC: 3 - Crusader - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10) - Crusader - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10) - Crusader - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 8) - Crusader - PC: 10 - Crusader - PC: 10 - Crusader - PC: 10 - Fire of Salvation - PC: 14 - Devout - PC: 9 The Covenant of Menoth - PC: 0 Exemplar Warder - PC: 0 Scrutator Potentate Severius - PC: 0 - Dervish - PC: 7 Wrack - PC: 1 Wrack - PC: 1 Choir of Menoth - Leader & 3 Grunts: 4 Choir of Menoth - Leader & 3 Grunts: 4 This might be the fairest list in the world. I cannot think of a competitive list that doesn't chew this up and spit it out with pretty much 0 problems.
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Post by chickenslayer on Nov 5, 2018 6:00:14 GMT
Hahahahaha. Oh. Man.
So there's a lot I could say in rebuttal here if I cared to (it's Menoth, so it's hard to), but I think this quote Vs what we actually said summarises my thoughts pretty well.
RE Kreoss3, what a phoned-in review. The fine focus on each aspect of the caster in a vacuum seems like the commentators have not really played this caster. There's some wild, cross-faction comparisons that pop out weirdly to downplay this caster, and a pretty obviously misses the deep plays available to him. He's among one of the best, most versatile casters in the faction. It does a disservice to the listener.
So, you do realise that:
- Kreoss 3 was rated top tier.
- Kreoss 3 is Jack, our guest host's, favourite caster in Menoth and he has played him a hell of a lot in competitive events, with Kreoss serving as a foil to weaknesses that other big names like Reclaimer or Harby have because he can run Basically Anything, as we discuss.
- Said analysis of spells comes from the fact that Jack has played this caster since basically he was released and we have had to play against it. And that it is a core part to Kreoss' identity given it is a large part of his feat
- Comparison points to Thyra, which weren't mentioned in the above tirade, are important because the casters are quite similar in broad scope as generalist picks who can run Basically Whatever. Thyra has stronger spells in category compared with Kreoss 3 and access to RFP (Silence vs Ignite, Occultation vs Arcane Ward, Carnage + Gates vs Death Sentence), Kreoss has access to Force Hammer and much more consistent output vs Heavies.
- Kreoss 3 is one of the few Menoth casters that doesn't bore me to tears
About the only thing correct there is that this cast is a disservice to listeners because we shit on Deliverers too much
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Post by paradox on Nov 5, 2018 12:44:28 GMT
I stand by my points. I mean, your headline claims here covers less than 3 minutes of a 2 hour podcast. - Lacking in novel or interesting discussions of the pieces. Full of “forum wisdom” commentary. - Obviously biased reviews. - Analysis lacks any depth at all. - Inconsistant format for describing or evaluating pieces. - and not least, near complete lack of interest in the subject matter brought up repeatedly.
As to you post specifically, it has the same problems as your cast. Rating Kreoss3 highly does not mean you didnt phone in the review. Neither does him being a favorite. Thats not substance, its meaningless trivia. Describing the spells isnt analysis, and the descriptions were perfunctory at best. The comparisons to Thyra were similarly superficial. Simply mentioning Gates id Death makes Thyra good isnt valuable content - its just repeating common knowledge. But yes, “tirade” is a pretty good description of that 2 hours. But that tirade made no discussion of Feora or deliverers, other than a rather Trumpian “theyre bad, bigly. Believe me.”
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Post by paradox on Nov 5, 2018 12:48:26 GMT
I’ll give you this - the disucussion of Sev0 was good. But thats what? 5 minutes? Maybe 10? A surprisingly low signal to noise ratio.
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Post by paradox on Nov 5, 2018 12:52:16 GMT
For instance. Theme: The Creator's Might 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army Grand Exemplar Kreoss - WJ: +28 - Hierophant - PC: 3 - Crusader - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10) - Crusader - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10) - Crusader - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 8) - Crusader - PC: 10 - Crusader - PC: 10 - Crusader - PC: 10 - Fire of Salvation - PC: 14 - Devout - PC: 9 The Covenant of Menoth - PC: 0 Exemplar Warder - PC: 0 Scrutator Potentate Severius - PC: 0 - Dervish - PC: 7 Wrack - PC: 1 Wrack - PC: 1 Choir of Menoth - Leader & 3 Grunts: 4 Choir of Menoth - Leader & 3 Grunts: 4 This might be the fairest list in the world. I cannot think of a competitive list that doesn't chew this up and spit it out with pretty much 0 problems. Could be. Like I said, its dojo.
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