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Post by reddust82 on Nov 1, 2018 0:33:32 GMT
I really don’t have much practical experience with Circle and none at all with Tharn, but I thought I’d give this a go. Please rip it apart :-)
War Room Army
Circle Orboros - Iona - 75 pts
Theme: The Devourer's Host 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Iona the Unseen - WB: +28 - Ghetorix - PC: 19 (Battlegroup Points Used: 19) - Feral Warpwolf - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 9)
Lord of the Feast - PC: 0 Tharn Ravager Shaman - PC: 4 Tharn Ravager White Mane - PC: 0 Tharn Wolf Rider Champion - PC: 0 Gallows Grove - PC: 2
Tharn Wolf Riders - Leader & 2 Grunts: 11 Tharn Ravagers - Leader & 5 Grunts: 15 - Tharn Ravager Chieftain - PC: 5 Tharn Bloodweavers - Leader & 5 Grunts: 8 - Tharn Bloodweaver Haruspex - PC: 4 Tharn Bloodtrackers - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15 - Nuala the Huntress - PC: 4
THEME: The Devourer's Host ---
GENERATED : 10/31/2018 20:31:30 BUILD ID : 2069.18-10-06
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Post by Trollock on Nov 1, 2018 1:34:52 GMT
My first thoughts (i have not played iona at all) would be that a stalker to give her sprint was superb. She really wants to kill something to trigger blood boon and sprinting after is a good idea.
Next is LotF who seem weak in the list over all. He wont get the STR/ARM of the feat and you have no croc pot to give him more corpses. A nother champion is probably better.
Assuming that all new models get released at the same time, B&C should provavly be in the list too, and that means that the blood shaman and croc pot should probably follow. They might not need the shaman though. With +3 STR they probably kill anything anyway even without the shaman...
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Post by reddust82 on Nov 1, 2018 3:11:49 GMT
Aw crap, I totally missed that LOTF isn’t a Tharn model. And i really like his rules, too, but that’s definitely something to reconsider. I’ll have to also reconsider B&C. I’m not sure why but I just wasn’t impressed with them from a theory viewpoint, but then again, Tharn has so many rules interactions (I’m used to Khador AK) that I’m probably missing something there as well. I’m also used to WM rules so I forgot that warlocks can cast their warbeasts’ animus themelselves. I really like Warpwolves. Do you think there’s room for 3 warbeasts in a standard Tharn list?
Also, what is the collective thought on Loki?
Also, Wolf Riders? They seem like awesome harassing units that, if played right, can cause serious problems for your opponent and will never get pinned down.
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Post by frumiousbandersnatch on Nov 1, 2018 4:09:43 GMT
General consensus on Wolf Riders is that they're bad. People did not like them in CID and thought they were too expensive. Personally, I want some more games with them first. Pros: Extremely fast, high defense, many attacks. Cons: very expensive, not very hard hitting, very easy to kill of defense can be overcome.
Brighid and Caul will be fantastic, don't underestimate them! Personally, I don't see ever bringing 3 heavies in a DH theme list. Maybe 1 heavy + 2 lights, but typically I don't see a reason to go any heavier than that on beasts. None of our beasts really support the Tharn infantry in anyway. It's more about what holes they can fill in your list and what useful animus they might provide your Warlock.
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Post by Trollock on Nov 1, 2018 6:45:16 GMT
General consensus on Wolf Riders is that they're bad. People did not like them in CID and thought they were too expensive. Personally, I want some more games with them first. Pros: Extremely fast, high defense, many attacks. Cons: very expensive, not very hard hitting, very easy to kill of defense can be overcome. Brighid and Caul will be fantastic, don't underestimate them! Personally, I don't see ever bringing 3 heavies in a DH theme list. Maybe 1 heavy + 2 lights, but typically I don't see a reason to go any heavier than that on beasts. None of our beasts really support the Tharn infantry in anyway. It's more about what holes they can fill in your list and what useful animus they might provide your Warlock. I think the wolfriders have a place for sure, but they are a finesse piece. Their damage output against a heavy is not impressive, but they can absolutely shred infantry with 3 attacks each at MAT 9 in the back. In a couple of months when the dust settles i think they will be staple, especially since trackers got nerfed.
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Post by reddust82 on Nov 1, 2018 10:45:34 GMT
So a more general question: are people overall happy with what happened in the Tharn CID? What do you think has become the staple Tharn units (and why?) and even the best Tharn warlock? Iona might have been tailor made for them (literally), but that doesn’t mean she’s best, necessarily.
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Post by newangel on Nov 1, 2018 13:56:27 GMT
I'll try giving this a shot.
Overall, yes I'm happy. Tharn are now very viable, and are a compelling enough option to be considered a potential pairing for Steamroller.
My personal opinion is that we have several different Warlocks who absolutely love using Tharn, just in different ways. The absolute best would be hard to define since it really depends what you want the list to handle and who the pair is likely to be. My personal top 4 are Baldur1, Wurmwood, Iona and Morvahna1, but not necessarily in that order. Personally I find Baldur1 does what I need him to. Why?
1. Solid Ground. Pretty amazing with Tough Tharn. Even better once you start accounting Rapid Healing and Vengeance. Warpwolves that can't be KD also love this spell.
2. A Strength buff. While Tharn now crack armour a bit better thanks to Brutal Charge, an additional damage buff helps them crack even heavier targets. They also get a lot from +2 armour when combined with Solid Ground and Rapid Healing. While they do get slowed down and easier to hit I haven't had it really impact many of my games thanks to Vengeance and...
3. That Feat! Bumping Tharn up to DEF 17 vs most shooting and spells really helps get them delivered. Opponents never having Pathfinder is also a big deal and in many situations grants you an alpha. When you take Bloodtrackers who LOVE a Strength buff sometimes it can mean you get a double alpha with them. Only obscene levels of armour or boxes saves the target.
Special Mention to LotF. To me at least it seems you want the Croc Pot and Mist Speaker as non-negotiable pieces. Apply Stone Skin, Fill up the Lord of the Feast, apply Puppet Master, Eyeless Sight and Magic Weapon and let him go to town on a target of choice. I've had it be key solos, artillery, light Warjacks/beasts, heavies (finishing up after Bloodtrackers) or even Warlocks/Warcasters. He's pretty amazing.
I'd say that Ravagers are a core unit though I don't think you can ever take just 1 unit, unless it's just to deter melee when running a gunline. They are too easily taken off the board to have just a single unit. Taking 2 allows you to threaten a much wider board space and you have a more than a reasonable chance to deliver them. Compared to other unit choices (which are a bit more specialized in their roles) I think these guys will be a staple. Another key model is also the Shaman. Granting magic weapons to a whole unit makes him worth 4 points to me. The fact he offers more than that just solidifies his utility even further.
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pmark
Demo Gamer
Posts: 17
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Post by pmark on Nov 2, 2018 1:36:31 GMT
So a more general question: are people overall happy with what happened in the Tharn CID? YES.
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Post by Trollock on Nov 2, 2018 9:01:54 GMT
Aw crap, I totally missed that LOTF isn’t a Tharn model. And i really like his rules, too, but that’s definitely something to reconsider. I’ll have to also reconsider B&C. I’m not sure why but I just wasn’t impressed with them from a theory viewpoint, but then again, Tharn has so many rules interactions (I’m used to Khador AK) that I’m probably missing something there as well. I’m also used to WM rules so I forgot that warlocks can cast their warbeasts’ animus themelselves. I really like Warpwolves. Do you think there’s room for 3 warbeasts in a standard Tharn list? Also, what is the collective thought on Loki? Also, Wolf Riders? They seem like awesome harassing units that, if played right, can cause serious problems for your opponent and will never get pinned down. I have used Loki a lot in my crazy test lists and he has been pretty sweet. He isnt killing much himself, but just the threat of the drag, the shield guard and the above average survivability have all been very neat. I do not know what type of theory you have been doing around B&C, but they are avsolutely insane, especially in theory. Add a spirit cauldron for guaranteed corpses (helps LotF too) and a blood shaman for divine inspiration and a strength buff like ionas feat and they kill ANYTHING. Check the numbers again I have played many lists with 3 heavies, and it is perfect for the casters that are not really infantry casters. For Iona though i would not sacrifice the third free solo as she supports infantry so well. You do not need primal in this list though, so stalker plus one is fine. Loki is probably not your go to beast with Iona though. Maybe stalker plus pureblood?
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Post by Lord_Randall on Nov 2, 2018 10:09:06 GMT
Played 2 games yesterday with this army:
Circle Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Devourer's Host
[Morvahna 1] Morvahna the Autumnblade [+28] - Argus Moonhound [6] - Gorax Rager [7] - Pureblood Warpwolf [17] Gallows Grove [2] Gallows Grove [2] Lord of the Feast [0(6)] Swamp Gobber Chef [1] Tharn Ravager Shaman [4] Tharn Ravager White Mane [5] Tharn Wolf Rider Champion [0(7)] Tharn Wolf Rider Champion [0(7)] Boil Master & Spirit Cauldron [5] Tharn Blood Pack (max) [15] Tharn Bloodtrackers (max) [15] - Nuala the Huntress [4] Tharn Ravagers (max) [15] - Tharn Ravager Chieftain [5]
First one into Madrak1 band of heroes, my opponent overlooked the interaction between feat and lotf (puppet mastered and blessed lotf print value), and I manged to land him under feat on the kriellstone in a clump of models. Between LotF, bloodpack, trakers and WRCs I killed 24 models on my second turn. He goes for a desperate jackammer assassination but was expected and I was camping 3.
Second one into Strakov2 AC, I goes second and when he feated entering the zones I just backed-up contesting with chaff models. He killed those models and scored few. In retaliation I killed both suppression tankers and one unit of shocktroopers. He killed lotf and some ravagers, I retaliate killing second unit of shocktroopers and a marauder sealing the attrition fight on my favor.
I can only say "feels good".
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Post by Trollock on Nov 2, 2018 12:19:36 GMT
@lord_Randall Sounds like you had fun! How does changing the two lights and a Gallows grove for Brennos sound? Seems like you will never primal anyway, and your shooting should hit just fine even with no moonhound
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Post by Lord_Randall on Nov 2, 2018 12:41:00 GMT
I trow mortality at frontline stuffs regardless and the trees are key for spreding wraithbane to flanking solos, having treath 15 from a tree and not needing entropic forces (because motrality) you can play trees quite safe. I like having primal for the little dog and reaching effective pow 20 with pureblood can be usefull. Another reason for the gorax is that pureblood use lots of boosts and is usually full, having a backline transfer target is comfortable, expecially if you have to commit the dog for scoring or accuracy/stealth removal (I was playing bloodpack quite back near Morvahna using ravagers for skirmishing).
That's the teory.
Is my tentative approach to Morv1, right now I don't feel Brennos add something significative to the army... for the assassination protection thing: I usually find myself sitting on 3-4 transfers maybe I'll change my mind after more table time.
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Post by Trollock on Nov 2, 2018 14:52:26 GMT
I trow mortality at frontline stuffs regardless and the trees are key for spreding wraithbane to flanking solos, having treath 15 from a tree and not needing entropic forces (because motrality) you can play trees quite safe. I like having primal for the little dog and reaching effective pow 20 with pureblood can be usefull. Another reason for the gorax is that pureblood use lots of boosts and is usually full, having a backline transfer target is comfortable, expecially if you have to commit the dog for scoring or accuracy/stealth removal (I was playing bloodpack quite back near Morvahna using ravagers for skirmishing). That's the teory. Is my tentative approach to Morv1, right now I don't feel Brennos add something significative to the army... for the assassination protection thing: I usually find myself sitting on 3-4 transfers maybe I'll change my mind after more table time. The plan for brennos is to heal up the tharn you bring back with Restoration. And ofc he is an arc node just as the tree. I love that the DH theme seems to work for so many casters with such diferent builds though!
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Post by Lord_Randall on Nov 2, 2018 15:04:32 GMT
Untill dust will settle... @trollok: what I mean is you can't split Brennos in 2 parts and buff both WRC even if splitting Brennos model in half will maybe reduce it to an acceptable size
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Post by Trollock on Nov 2, 2018 18:51:53 GMT
Untill dust will settle... @trollok: what I mean is you can't split Brennos in 2 parts and buff both WRC even if splitting Brennos model in half will maybe reduce it to an acceptable size But you still have two arc nodes... Im not sure i understand the difference
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