|
Denny0
Dec 12, 2018 7:49:16 GMT
Post by Gamingdevil on Dec 12, 2018 7:49:16 GMT
Does she appreciably change the way Asphyxious 3 plays? To take the typical Slayer spam, maybe something like this? conflictchamber.com/#c4201b_-0UbY1f1f1v1v1v1v1v1v1v1v1v2nlP1f8JCryx Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Black Industries [Asphyxious 3] Asphyxious the Hellbringer [+24] - Nightwretch [0(7)] - Nightwretch [0(7)] - Slayer [10] - Slayer [10] - Slayer [10] - Slayer [10] - Slayer [10] - Slayer [10] - Slayer [10] - Slayer [10] - Slayer [10] Necrotech [2] Warwitch Initiate Deneghra [4] - Nightwretch [0(7)] Sea Dog Deck Gun [3] Asphyxious doesn't need 3 Nightwretches and rarely has focus to cast Calamity so this gives him access to a debuff and the possibility to ignore the screen and go for the throat. I considered making the last 5 points Eilish to have Puppet Master available (because missing Curse sucks), but I think a scoring unit is more important.
|
|
Deller
Junior Strategist
I’m on a Boat
Posts: 605
|
Denny0
Dec 20, 2018 15:09:05 GMT
Post by Deller on Dec 20, 2018 15:09:05 GMT
I don’t think Asphyxious3 wants her. 9 Slayers doesn’t need an extra Armor Debuff, especially since it doesn’t stack with Calamity, and I actually find you do usually have the focus to cast Calamity thanks to how easily Asphyxious3 gathers souls. Most of the time Asphyxious allocates very little, and just used Combo Strikes. Mobility is rarely necessary after the first turn.
My current home for Deneghra0 is with Venethrax. My current primary list is Skarre3 SFR, and I’m not enjoying the Iona matchup, or Circle in general really, with Boaty. I wanted a BI list to deal with Circle because Tharn get sad when they realize the only corpses they’re gunna get are the ones they started with. I opted for Venethrax over other BI Casters because:
1) Mortality is really, really good in the meta right now. No KD Tough Units are all over the place and the meta is currently full of healing abilities.
2) Lamentation is Brutal, and a lot of lists lose the ability to deal with problems that arise in game because of it.
3) Venethrax was the first Warcaster I devoted myself too after I learned to play back in 2011, and was the first painted Caster I owned, so he has a soft spot in my heart & I’m always looking to put him on the table, even though he’s nothing like he was in Mk2.
I’m currently playing:
Theme: Black Industries 2 / 2 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Stockpile - Steamroller Objective
Lich Lord Venethrax - WJ: +26 - The Withershadow Combine - Maelovus, Admonia & Tremulus: 9 - Ripjaw - PC: 0 - Ripjaw - PC: 0 - Slayer - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10) - Slayer - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10) - Desecrator - PC: 14 (Battlegroup Points Used: 6) - Harrower - PC: 16 - Deathjack - PC: 23 Necrotech - PC: 2 Warwitch Initiate Deneghra - PC: 4 - Nightwretch - PC: 7 Black Ogrun Ironmongers - Leader & 2 Grunts: 6
So far it’s been my favorite Venethrax build. Like I said in my previous post Deneghra rarely casts Venom. I’ve cast it once on a Dismounted Fane Knight Skeryth Issyen, after I stupidly forgot he was a Dragoon & blocked off my ability to attack him once he was dismounted. It left him on 1 box and the corrosion failed to finish him :/. What I do now in regards to Witch Bond is cast it on turn one and upkeep it until the turn I need to cast Curse of Shadows. If I have to choose between upkeeping Bond & Boosting CoS I always drop Bond and boost. Occasionally Deneghra’s Nightwretch will get her 1 Soul a turn with the pop gun, & I can upkeep Bond & boost a Curse, but most of the time I don’t get that luxury & Bond gets dropped.
The big reason I bring Deneghra0 in the list is unlike with Asphyxious3, Venethrax can actually stack Mortality with Curse of Shadows, and if you land the Mortality before applying Curse, you make it easier for Deneghra to hit with her miserable Focus stat. Ask any Anamag player, having a 4 point damage swing is significantly better than a 2 point swing. The extra damage swing is massive, and gives Venethrax a lot more play into matchups he previously didn’t want much to do with, like double Turtle lists.
|
|
|
Denny0
Dec 20, 2018 15:19:54 GMT
Post by Gamingdevil on Dec 20, 2018 15:19:54 GMT
Deller I've also cast Venom once, the turn when I cast 2 fully boosted Hellfires at Cassius and left him on 1 box, then Puppet Mastered Deneghra, arced a Venom, with only a boost to hit (I wasn't counting on needing the Venom so has upkept Witch Bond), needing the reroll to hit and then failed to kill him again, but left him corroded. Corrosion also failed to kill him. I guess her Venom is just designed to be disappointing? I do like Venethrax, basically for the reasons you've stated, but how do you find your ability to properly deal with infantry with this list? Or is that when you just drop the boat?
|
|
Growl
Junior Strategist
Posts: 496
|
Denny0
Dec 20, 2018 19:51:55 GMT
Post by Growl on Dec 20, 2018 19:51:55 GMT
Deller very cool idea with Venethrax! He likewise was a caster that I really liked in the beginning of my forays into Cryx, but he was always missing something. Might be worth a second look?
|
|
Deller
Junior Strategist
I’m on a Boat
Posts: 605
|
Denny0
Dec 20, 2018 23:28:53 GMT
Post by Deller on Dec 20, 2018 23:28:53 GMT
Deller I've also cast Venom once, the turn when I cast 2 fully boosted Hellfires at Cassius and left him on 1 box, then Puppet Mastered Deneghra, arced a Venom, with only a boost to hit (I wasn't counting on needing the Venom so has upkept Witch Bond), needing the reroll to hit and then failed to kill him again, but left him corroded. Corrosion also failed to kill him. I guess her Venom is just designed to be disappointing? I do like Venethrax, basically for the reasons you've stated, but how do you find your ability to properly deal with infantry with this list? Or is that when you just drop the boat? It actually does fine. The overwhelming majority of Infantry is alive, so Terminal Velocity gives you Auto boosted Attack rolls into most units. Auto boosted hit rolls is great with both the Harrower Thresher & Tramples, and you can typically get 1-3 extra Infantry kills a turn with good counter charges. I’m not looking to Drop Venethrax into hard Infantry skews like Winter Guard because I’d much rather play the list with Blighted Trolls into that, but Venethrax can hold his own into some Infantry lists should you end up needing to drop him there so Skarre can dodge a problem.
|
|
|
Denny0
Dec 21, 2018 7:06:17 GMT
Post by Gamingdevil on Dec 21, 2018 7:06:17 GMT
It actually does fine. The overwhelming majority of Infantry is alive, so Terminal Velocity gives you Auto boosted Attack rolls into most units. Auto boosted hit rolls is great with both the Harrower Thresher & Tramples, and you can typically get 1-3 extra Infantry kills a turn with good counter charges. I’m not looking to Drop Venethrax into hard Infantry skews like Winter Guard because I’d much rather play the list with Blighted Trolls into that, but Venethrax can hold his own into some Infantry lists should you end up needing to drop him there so Skarre can dodge a problem. I can see how he would be a decent pair to Skarre 3. When I gave him a shot, I found that 12" linear threat is not really enough when your heavies fold like paper to anything that outthreats you. Though you do have a lot of focus efficiency and extra casting in your list, so I guess Deadweight helps. And anything that massively outthreats you probably doesn't like Skarre's guns.
|
|
unded
Junior Strategist
Posts: 760
|
Denny0
Dec 24, 2018 9:55:18 GMT
Post by unded on Dec 24, 2018 9:55:18 GMT
Gotta say I love the notion of using Denny0 with Venny.
Mortality really complements her well (read: "fixes her shocking FOC stat"), and if needed you can TV, mortality one target and curse a second if you need a big turn to punch a hole in a brick. The only real problem is you're doubling down on offensive debuffs, which can be a bit problematic in a world where spell hate is becoming more and more prevalent, so make sure to pair with some armour crack that doesn't get shut down by spell hate.
|
|
marke
Junior Strategist
Posts: 187
|
Denny0
Dec 24, 2018 11:47:56 GMT
via mobile
Post by marke on Dec 24, 2018 11:47:56 GMT
I've janky idea of taking D0 with Gore3 infernal machines. Curse an enemy screening unit, fly bunch of birds past it and try something with feat. The damage is a big question mark tho.
|
|
|
Denny0
Dec 26, 2018 6:41:34 GMT
Post by Gamingdevil on Dec 26, 2018 6:41:34 GMT
I've janky idea of taking D0 with Gore3 infernal machines. Curse an enemy screening unit, fly bunch of birds past it and try something with feat. The damage is a big question mark tho. To me the question is more what is the question in the first place? What does this list do that Ghost Fleet doesn't do better?
|
|
Deller
Junior Strategist
I’m on a Boat
Posts: 605
|
Denny0
Dec 26, 2018 14:34:34 GMT
Post by Deller on Dec 26, 2018 14:34:34 GMT
I've janky idea of taking D0 with Gore3 infernal machines. Curse an enemy screening unit, fly bunch of birds past it and try something with feat. The damage is a big question mark tho. To me the question is more what is the question in the first place? What does this list do that Ghost Fleet doesn't do better? Damage. Revenant Crew cap at effective Pow 13 with Goreshade3, 9 + 2 (gang) + 2 (Dark Shroud). Mechanithralls on the other hand go to Pow 14, 10 + 2 (Dark Shroud) + 2 (Curse of Shadows) with Double the Melee Attacks/model or they can Combo Strike up to pow 17 if they take single attacks. McThralls hit significantly harder than Revenants once they get access to CoS. On top of having the better damage output, Thrall recursion synergizes better with Mockery of Life than Revenant recursion does. Both Mockery & the Revenant’s Deathbound return destroyed models to the game, and Deathbound does not let you go above starting Unit size, even if you’ve added grunts to the unit some how. Necrosurgeons on the other hand do not return destroyed grunts, instead they create new grunts. So when your opponent kills 3 of your Revenants, you only get to bring 3 back between Mockery & Deathbound. When your opponent kills 3 McThralls your Surgeons get 3 Corpses, so Goreshade can Mockery back the 3 that died and the Surgeon can create 3 new Thralls with the Corpses giving you a total of 6 new models. With the release of Deneghra0, I’m actually of the opinion Goreshade3 IM > Goreshade3 GF.
|
|
|
Denny0
Dec 26, 2018 14:51:07 GMT
Post by Gamingdevil on Dec 26, 2018 14:51:07 GMT
Deathbound does not let you go above starting Unit size, even if you’ve added grunts to the unit some how. I'd just like to point out that this is not necessarily true. Deathbound only triggers when the unit is below starting size, but it does allow you to return more models if any were created.
|
|
marke
Junior Strategist
Posts: 187
|
Denny0
Dec 29, 2018 7:25:47 GMT
via mobile
Post by marke on Dec 29, 2018 7:25:47 GMT
Btw, why are people taking crabjacks like in Deller's list above? I mean Desecrator and Harrower. I've played Leviathans, but they rarely do much.
Desecrator seems better costed at least. Not bashing them as such, I'm simply curious why people bring them?
|
|
|
Denny0
Dec 29, 2018 19:46:46 GMT
Post by NephMakes on Dec 29, 2018 19:46:46 GMT
Btw, why are people taking crabjacks like in Deller's list above? I mean Desecrator and Harrower. I've played Leviathans, but they rarely do much. Desecrator seems better costed at least. Not bashing them as such, I'm simply curious why people bring them? Harrowers are good (with a hit buff) against heavy infantry, which is more of a thing now. And Desecrators are useful area denial against light infantry.
|
|
Deller
Junior Strategist
I’m on a Boat
Posts: 605
|
Denny0
Dec 30, 2018 6:46:00 GMT
Post by Deller on Dec 30, 2018 6:46:00 GMT
Btw, why are people taking crabjacks like in Deller's list above? I mean Desecrator and Harrower. I've played Leviathans, but they rarely do much. Desecrator seems better costed at least. Not bashing them as such, I'm simply curious why people bring them? The Harrower is largely garbage, but Venethrax actually makes it work. Terminal Velocity fixes its hitting problem, and lets it wade into most Infantry Swarms and just unleash hell. I’ve yet to play a single game with Venethrax where his Harrower didn’t kill at least 5 models. On top of the synergy with TV, in many matchups it fuels itself thanks to its soul mechanic. I wouldn’t recommend playing a Harrower with any other caster, but with Venethrax it’s actually legit. The Desecrator is amazing IMO. The reason I run it in this list is because it has a powerful gun, with Infantry denial capabilities, and Terminal Velocity drastically increases the likelyhood of rolling a Crit. www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Critical_Hit_Table_for_Warmachine_and_Hordes depending on your target’s Defense your likelyhood of criting can either triple or quadruple under Terminal Velocity. The Desecrator’s Melee Damage output is crazy high if you score enough crits. My last game into Circle my Desecrator one rounded a full health Storm Raptor that I tagged with Mortality with just 2 focus. 4s to hit on 3 dice, 43.98% chance to Crit, dice +1.
|
|
|
Denny0
Dec 30, 2018 10:33:53 GMT
via mobile
Post by gedditoffme on Dec 30, 2018 10:33:53 GMT
Btw, why are people taking crabjacks like in Deller's list above? I mean Desecrator and Harrower. I've played Leviathans, but they rarely do much. Desecrator seems better costed at least. Not bashing them as such, I'm simply curious why people bring them? Deller has explained his list, but on the desecrator I’d add that he should be your default choice in any Dark Host list. Most lists can use a gun, and at 14 points and 2 free focus he is one of the best independent shooters cryx has. And high pow and crit shred means no slouch as late game melee or zone guard. If you don’t take 1-2 desecrators in dark host, you’d better have a reason imo, cos he is efficient and cheap at what he does. The scatter and decent melee weapon adds a lot too.
|
|