Deller
Junior Strategist
I’m on a Boat
Posts: 605
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Denny0
Nov 11, 2018 5:52:36 GMT
Post by Deller on Nov 11, 2018 5:52:36 GMT
Sudden thought... though definitely not original to me: if only Jezraell was SR legal, that would be so busted...! Giving Cryx a Tournament legal prenerf Haley2 Feat is a great way to start a riot
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germanicus
Junior Strategist
No jokes round ear...
Posts: 358
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Denny0
Nov 11, 2018 6:07:22 GMT
Post by germanicus on Nov 11, 2018 6:07:22 GMT
Giving Cryx a Tournament legal prenerf Haley2 Feat is a great way to start a riot A little dreaming is OK... Sure, sure, I know... it's about a million toys too many, that one.
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Growl
Junior Strategist
Posts: 496
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Denny0
Nov 22, 2018 1:16:51 GMT
Post by Growl on Nov 22, 2018 1:16:51 GMT
So has anyone actually used Denny0 yet? What was your list like? Can you share your battle with us? I’ve just been looking her over again and again. I have some spots that she could fill, but I feel overall that she is still a little too weak to be as effective as she looks on paper. Her likely most useful spell will need a boost to hit, leaving her 0 Focus and likely either lead to the wrecking of her arc node, or the death of her, barring some good use of terrain. I’m just not sure how much she really brings? Hitting Def 12 with curse of shadows needs an 8 which is pretty missable even when boosted. I guess things with better ARM that you would really want to debuff, don’t typically have much higher Defenses, outside of a Warcaster/Warlock, but still, I look at something like Sevy0 and can’t help but feel jipped.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Nov 22, 2018 8:51:17 GMT
Haven't actually gotten the chance to play her yet, but if all else fails, you can always use her in place of a Warwitch Siren in BI.
If Aiakos already has his battle group and you just give Denny a Stalker, it's at least 2 focus to give per turn compared to the Siren's 1. After you send it in, it can collect some Souls and next turn she can cast a Curse of Shadows and then die.
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Zaku
Junior Strategist
Posts: 224
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Denny0
Nov 24, 2018 5:27:01 GMT
via mobile
Post by Zaku on Nov 24, 2018 5:27:01 GMT
Haven't actually gotten the chance to play her yet, but if all else fails, you can always use her in place of a Warwitch Siren in BI. If Aiakos already has his battle group and you just give Denny a Stalker, it's at least 2 focus to give per turn compared to the Siren's 1. After you send it in, it can collect some Souls and next turn she can cast a Curse of Shadows and then die. So much value haha.
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Denny0
Nov 24, 2018 7:55:53 GMT
Post by josephkerr on Nov 24, 2018 7:55:53 GMT
Haven't actually gotten the chance to play her yet, but if all else fails, you can always use her in place of a Warwitch Siren in BI. If Aiakos already has his battle group and you just give Denny a Stalker, it's at least 2 focus to give per turn compared to the Siren's 1. After you send it in, it can collect some Souls and next turn she can cast a Curse of Shadows and then die. So much value haha. She’s horrible value. Most models that offer a 2 point arm swing are 2 or 3 points max. /s
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Zaku
Junior Strategist
Posts: 224
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Denny0
Nov 24, 2018 8:38:53 GMT
via mobile
Post by Zaku on Nov 24, 2018 8:38:53 GMT
She’s horrible value. Most models that offer a 2 point arm swing are 2 or 3 points max. /s I thought about getting her when I heard the zero 'casters were coming out... But I think I will likely just stick to getting Sorscha0 for my Khador. Compared to her... Denny does not seem to offer much to the army.
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germanicus
Junior Strategist
No jokes round ear...
Posts: 358
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Denny0
Nov 24, 2018 8:47:55 GMT
Post by germanicus on Nov 24, 2018 8:47:55 GMT
I thought about getting her when I heard the zero 'casters were coming out... But I think I will likely just stick to getting Sorscha0 for my Khador. Compared to her... Denny does not seem to offer much to the army. Her value is a bit difficult to judge IMO and she appears kinda finicky to use as you want to put a soul generator on her and an arc node for CoS, but FOC 4 makes a boost mandatory even against many unbuffed Gargossals, as a failed 6 hurts, and on what is by now quite an expensive module. And then there's which main caster she's under as she's there for extra ARM swing for some who either don't have it (e.g. Morte1) or with whom it's really expensive (e.g. Scav). A skilled player is likely to be able to leverage it, no doubt, but it does seem resource intensive and requires a lot of micromanagement to get work done. :/
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Denny0
Nov 26, 2018 6:57:49 GMT
Post by Gamingdevil on Nov 26, 2018 6:57:49 GMT
She’s horrible value. Most models that offer a 2 point arm swing are 2 or 3 points max. /s Exhibit A: Ragman (4) Exhibit B: Gorman di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist (4) Exhibit C: Iron Lich Overseer (5) The only models I can think of that are so cheap are the ones that give a flat +2 STR to a single model, such as Arcanist Mechaniks or Paingiver Beast Handlers. The problem with Denny in this instance is that the cost seems really bad when you consider that she needs to directly hit her target for it so take effect, which stretches her resources to the max and then it's still a coin flip.
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Denny0
Dec 11, 2018 5:23:41 GMT
Post by custardboy on Dec 11, 2018 5:23:41 GMT
She’s horrible value. Most models that offer a 2 point arm swing are 2 or 3 points max. /s Exhibit A: Ragman (4) Exhibit B: Gorman di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist (4) Exhibit C: Iron Lich Overseer (5) The only models I can think of that are so cheap are the ones that give a flat +2 STR to a single model, such as Arcanist Mechaniks or Paingiver Beast Handlers. The problem with Denny in this instance is that the cost seems really bad when you consider that she needs to directly hit her target for it so take effect, which stretches her resources to the max and then it's still a coin flip. /s means sarcasm haha
I have played her a couple of times now and definitely don't like her. If Witch Mark let her channel through her jack, or gave it telemetry, or she had Ghost Walk or some other useful backfield spell then OK. She's far and away the worst of the junior Warcasters. Yesterday she only just hit a Driller with a boost. That's how I found out Drillers are Def 9 not Def 10. Then she missed another Driller later (unboosted), her node died, then she sprayed Anastasia and missed, and then died. It's a lot of activity but was 11 points low success.
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Denny0
Dec 11, 2018 8:59:32 GMT
Post by Gamingdevil on Dec 11, 2018 8:59:32 GMT
/s means sarcasm haha I have played her a couple of times now and definitely don't like her. If Witch Mark let her channel through her jack, or gave it telemetry, or she had Ghost Walk or some other useful backfield spell then OK. She's far and away the worst of the junior Warcasters. Yesterday she only just hit a Driller with a boost. That's how I found out Drillers are Def 9 not Def 10. Then she missed another Driller later (unboosted), her node died, then she sprayed Anastasia and missed, and then died. It's a lot of activity but was 11 points low success.
Wow, really missed that sarcasm tag, my bad. I've played her twice now and she basically takes the place of a Warwitch Siren if you give her a jack you would have otherwise Empowered, like a Stalker in my Skarre list. You probably also want to be able to spare a node. In that case, she's strictly better than the WWS (who should probably be 3 points, but whatever) in having +1 ARM, +1 DEF, +1 SPD, -0.5" melee. The spray being boostable FOC 4 is better than MA 6 and she has the option of casting Curse of Shadows, option being the operative word. Having Puppet Master available does help her a lot. A Nightwretch or Stalker can give her a couple of souls right before it dies and then she has about 6 FOC to play around with next turn. That being said, I agree she's the worst of the Juniors and even with Puppet Master and boosts, trying to hit with FOC 4 is really mopey. I would've happily paid 5 points for her if she was FOC 5 or had Dark Power (with my preference going to the latter) and said so on multiple occasions during the CID, but it is what it is. PS: looks like she's slated for a March release. PPS: I'm still holding out hope that in a stroke of genius they will be inspired to give Witch Mark to Denny 3 now that there is precedence.
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unded
Junior Strategist
Posts: 760
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Denny0
Dec 11, 2018 14:14:57 GMT
Post by unded on Dec 11, 2018 14:14:57 GMT
Just a thought, but maybe Denny0 has a place in lists with pistol wraiths? Stationary targets are something she can reliably debuff, actually getting value of her crappy FOC 4 arse.
Not a great option, but it's something.
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Denny0
Dec 11, 2018 14:27:30 GMT
Post by Gamingdevil on Dec 11, 2018 14:27:30 GMT
Just a thought, but maybe Denny0 has a place in lists with pistol wraiths? Stationary targets are something she can reliably debuff, actually getting value of her crappy FOC 4 arse. Not a great option, but it's something. Sure, but is the total package really worth it at that point? If you want to play that combination in theme, you're already in IM, so yay I guess? Then you're paying 4 for Denny (can't be free) and 6+ for an arc node (can't be free) + 5 for a Pistol Wraith (can be free) just to babysit for Denny? Then you're banking on hitting an unboosted 7 twice so you wouldn't have to hit a boosted 4. Also, the POW 12's of the Pistol Wraith will not benefit from the -2 ARM. I'm not sure that's actually better. Don't get me wrong, I think that could be useful in certain situations, I just don't think it's what "unlocks" Denny 0.
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unded
Junior Strategist
Posts: 760
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Denny0
Dec 11, 2018 16:19:57 GMT
Post by unded on Dec 11, 2018 16:19:57 GMT
Ugh.
You're not wrong, I'm just reaching around in our bag of tricks to justify.
Another one bites the dust, sadly.
Is the reroll off Morty1's Feat enough to make her viable, I wonder?
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Deller
Junior Strategist
I’m on a Boat
Posts: 605
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Denny0
Dec 12, 2018 3:56:45 GMT
Post by Deller on Dec 12, 2018 3:56:45 GMT
My experience proxying her (sadly missed the window to buy her) in games has been:
1) Never put more than a single Arc Node on her.
2) Never cast Witch Bond or Venom.
3) Always boost to hit Curse of Shadows.
She’s not exciting enough to make me want to play an IM/BI list the way Severa makes me want to play Scourge, but she’s been good enough that if I’m going to be playing in either of those themes I’m heavily considering her and her existence makes me actually consider delving into those themes with Casters I’d ordinarily play elsewhere. The two biggest winners in my experience have been Aiakos2 BI & Scaverous BI. The extra Armor Debuff is nice, but the real value is the mobility they gained by being able to move through the Cursed models.
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