Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
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Post by Juris on Oct 29, 2018 23:39:57 GMT
Many good Cygnar players have switched to Crucible Guard. You'll see people flocking back to Cygnar after the next Cygnar CID. That's fine. That's how this works now.
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Post by onijet01 on Oct 30, 2018 5:56:04 GMT
My initial wrench idea is going around sones of the temple. But thats more because i have this gnawing feeling that the larger armor and box armies are to liner and my minds starting to calculate the advantage in control eliments.
Liner in needing specific order of activations and supports to optimize work. Also most players play thos armies very similarly but thats the game
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cain
Junior Strategist
Posts: 243
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Post by cain on Oct 30, 2018 9:13:15 GMT
But how are your expensive POW 10 guns on gun mages able to take down the buffed medium infantry ?
I have seen people try it with Siege1, and it has some game. But its extremely difficult to pull off. Usually you will be able to kill som models on siege feat turn, but not enough. The opposite player will spread out his infantry.
Theres a reason we didnt see lots of siege1 in the mark.2 meta with meatmountain.
And Siege1 is usually very vulnerable if he gets to gready on his feat turn. He needs to be within 12" of the enemy models (14" with squire). If he is that far up he is exposed. It's the same problem nemo3 now have. Shure Nemos feat is good, but if he gets to gready he dies.
Maybe crucible guard is the "new cygnar". Shooting wih lots of buffing/debuffing, good warjacks and some good base infantry.
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Post by onijet01 on Oct 30, 2018 12:28:38 GMT
But how are your expensive POW 10 guns on gun mages able to take down the buffed medium infantry ?
I have seen people try it with Siege1, and it has some game. But its extremely difficult to pull off. Usually you will be able to kill som models on siege feat turn, but not enough. The opposite player will spread out his infantry.
Theres a reason we didnt see lots of siege1 in the mark.2 meta with meatmountain.
And Siege1 is usually very vulnerable if he gets to gready on his feat turn. He needs to be within 12" of the enemy models (14" with squire). If he is that far up he is exposed. It's the same problem nemo3 now have. Shure Nemos feat is good, but if he gets to gready he dies.
Maybe crucible guard is the "new cygnar". Shooting wih lots of buffing/debuffing, good warjacks and some good base infantry.
I understand the dilemma, yet i am looking for a diffrent solution. My idea starts with a core of Haley 1, two defenders (yah i know the cons) and a squire. But the idea actually came to me by the shadow fire ammunition. The ability to ignore key models may infact be all that is needed. Pow 10s are weak but on a armor 16 caster you can easily cause plinking damage that can be fatal. My unit choices are two full gunmage units with ua and hunters of all things. Hunters are way over cost but a aim jack martialed hunter can be pow 8. And black 13th. With deadeye on haleyx should i push melee i can have two units of gunfigter pistoleers do good melee damage. (3 dice to hit, and 3 or 4 dice for damage potential) all while within haleys -2 def and spd buddle. Its not a perfect list but im looking to try it (vea proxy) into a armored core list at the end of november. So right know its just practice vs myself in full games. So sad when you have 3 ppl to play against and its once every two weeks
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gmonkey
Junior Strategist
I, for one, welcome our Infernal Overlords.
Posts: 313
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Post by gmonkey on Oct 30, 2018 13:15:24 GMT
So sad when you have 3 ppl to play against and its once every two weeks I would love to get that many games. (apologies for the non-sequitur)
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Post by octaviusmaximus on Oct 30, 2018 14:15:08 GMT
The problem with using Gun Mages to attempt to control medium based spam is that, well, it doesn't work.
Look at the big offenders:
Armoured Corps: - Access to Wind Storm, clouds or Wind Blast - Primary unit is Steady as are a good number of jacks. - Demo Corps are Vengeance and so shooting with low pow guns is dangerous.
Primal Terrors: - Armour 18 in general for most of the army due to blightbringer - Vengeance on all of the warmongers - High Mat Berserks. - Gun mages have no answer to Hellmouths.
Tharn: - Def High enough to dodge most shots you make and mostly immune to pow 10's due to rapid healing. - Vengeance on Ravagers. - Treewalker means gun mages can easily be ambushed.
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cain
Junior Strategist
Posts: 243
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Post by cain on Oct 30, 2018 14:19:42 GMT
But how are your expensive POW 10 guns on gun mages able to take down the buffed medium infantry ?
I have seen people try it with Siege1, and it has some game. But its extremely difficult to pull off. Usually you will be able to kill som models on siege feat turn, but not enough. The opposite player will spread out his infantry.
Theres a reason we didnt see lots of siege1 in the mark.2 meta with meatmountain.
And Siege1 is usually very vulnerable if he gets to gready on his feat turn. He needs to be within 12" of the enemy models (14" with squire). If he is that far up he is exposed. It's the same problem nemo3 now have. Shure Nemos feat is good, but if he gets to gready he dies.
Maybe crucible guard is the "new cygnar". Shooting wih lots of buffing/debuffing, good warjacks and some good base infantry.
I understand the dilemma, yet i am looking for a diffrent solution. My idea starts with a core of Haley 1, two defenders (yah i know the cons) and a squire. But the idea actually came to me by the shadow fire ammunition. The ability to ignore key models may infact be all that is needed. Pow 10s are weak but on a armor 16 caster you can easily cause plinking damage that can be fatal. My unit choices are two full gunmage units with ua and hunters of all things. Hunters are way over cost but a aim jack martialed hunter can be pow 8. And black 13th. With deadeye on haleyx should i push melee i can have two units of gunfigter pistoleers do good melee damage. (3 dice to hit, and 3 or 4 dice for damage potential) all while within haleys -2 def and spd buddle. Its not a perfect list but im looking to try it (vea proxy) into a armored core list at the end of november. So right know its just practice vs myself in full games. So sad when you have 3 ppl to play against and its once every two weeks Yeah not a bad idea. But haley1 sons of tempest into armourskew - then your gameplan is pretty much - go for assassination.
I dont think its a good battleplan. There is so much counterplay against ranged assassination; just hide behind a forrest, screen with 2 layers, have shield guards close to your screening models (so the shield guard take the shadowfire) and so on.
Most players around here play for atttrition/scenario. Assassination comes up late game after several rounds, where game is close too decided, or if some poor guy who dont know the interactions/treat-distance just do something wrong.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Oct 30, 2018 17:18:16 GMT
I trialled Sons a fair bit, it has a deceptively high damage output if you combo correctly. It's biggest weakness though is that gun mages are made of tissue paper, and your army can disintegrate very quickly, that's why I shelved it.
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Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
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Post by Juris on Oct 30, 2018 17:45:58 GMT
The problem with using Gun Mages to attempt to control medium based spam is that, well, it doesn't work. Look at the big offenders: Armoured Corps: - Access to Wind Storm, clouds or Wind Blast - Primary unit is Steady as are a good number of jacks. - Demo Corps are Vengeance and so shooting with low pow guns is dangerous. Primal Terrors: - Armour 18 in general for most of the army due to blightbringer - Vengeance on all of the warmongers - High Mat Berserks. - Gun mages have no answer to Hellmouths. Tharn: - Def High enough to dodge most shots you make and mostly immune to pow 10's due to rapid healing. - Vengeance on Ravagers. - Treewalker means gun mages can easily be ambushed. I think you mean to point out that the Shocktroopers and Clamjacks are "Sturdy" (the rule that prevents pushing). Also, unrelated to the first point; Gun Mages have an excellent answer to Hellmouths in the form of AT Riflemen Deathbolt shots.
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Post by octaviusmaximus on Oct 30, 2018 23:27:13 GMT
The problem with using Gun Mages to attempt to control medium based spam is that, well, it doesn't work. Look at the big offenders: Armoured Corps: - Access to Wind Storm, clouds or Wind Blast - Primary unit is Steady as are a good number of jacks. - Demo Corps are Vengeance and so shooting with low pow guns is dangerous. Primal Terrors: - Armour 18 in general for most of the army due to blightbringer - Vengeance on all of the warmongers - High Mat Berserks. - Gun mages have no answer to Hellmouths. Tharn: - Def High enough to dodge most shots you make and mostly immune to pow 10's due to rapid healing. - Vengeance on Ravagers. - Treewalker means gun mages can easily be ambushed. I think you mean to point out that the Shocktroopers and Clamjacks are "Sturdy" (the rule that prevents pushing). Also, unrelated to the first point; Gun Mages have an excellent answer to Hellmouths in the form of AT Riflemen Deathbolt shots. Those riflemen can't see through forests or buildings, so no its not a very good answer. (In fact, if the Riflemen is shooting vs a Hellmouth in cover they need 7's to hit). And yes, I meant sturdy. Was writing at 2am.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Oct 31, 2018 10:30:30 GMT
Out of 54 players only 2 brought cygnar. Highest cygnar was on 34th place. Rather depressing The amount of players does say something, but I wouldn't get too hung up on that 34th place. 1 because the sample size is small with only 2 representatives and 2 because that's actually a drop after round 4 with 2 wins. If D-P had played and won that last round he would've shot up quite a bit. First Cryx player, and highest 3-2, is 8th at 3 wins and the lowest 3-2 is at 20.
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Post by maxmaino on Oct 31, 2018 11:58:49 GMT
May be a solution play hi def list like this? Have 16/18 def in all model at 5" from Halleys and Fire for effect in Hunters is a good solution for crack jack.
War Room Army
Cygnar - Haley 3
Theme: Sons of the Tempest 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Major Prime Victoria Haley - WJ: +25 - Haley Past - Haley Future - Squire - PC: 0 - Ironclad - PC: 12 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12) - Thorn - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 13)
Captain Arlan Strangewayes - PC: 0 Journeyman Lieutenant Allister Caine - PC: 5 - Ace - PC: 10 Arcane Tempest Rifleman - PC: 4
Arcane Tempest Gun Mages - Leader & 5 Grunts: 11 - Arcane Tempest Gun Mage Officer - PC: 0 - Hunter - PC: 10 Arcane Tempest Gun Mages - Leader & 5 Grunts: 11 - Arcane Tempest Gun Mage Officer - PC: 4 - Hunter - PC: 10 Black 13th Strike Force - Lynch, Ryan, & Watts: 10
THEME: Sons of the Tempest ---
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Oct 31, 2018 12:58:50 GMT
May be a solution play hi def list like this? Have 16/18 def in all model at 5" from Halleys and Fire for effect in Hunters is a good solution for crack jack. War Room Army Cygnar - Haley 3 Theme: Sons of the Tempest 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army Major Prime Victoria Haley - WJ: +25 - Haley Past - Haley Future - Squire - PC: 0 - Ironclad - PC: 12 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12) - Thorn - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 13) Captain Arlan Strangewayes - PC: 0 Journeyman Lieutenant Allister Caine - PC: 5 - Ace - PC: 10 Arcane Tempest Rifleman - PC: 4 Arcane Tempest Gun Mages - Leader & 5 Grunts: 11 - Arcane Tempest Gun Mage Officer - PC: 0 - Hunter - PC: 10 Arcane Tempest Gun Mages - Leader & 5 Grunts: 11 - Arcane Tempest Gun Mage Officer - PC: 4 - Hunter - PC: 10 Black 13th Strike Force - Lynch, Ryan, & Watts: 10 THEME: Sons of the Tempest --- The problem is it still melts to blasts etc
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Post by onijet01 on Oct 31, 2018 13:15:57 GMT
36cygnar24guy36 you nailed is. The greatest issue i have is blast damage...
Instead deciding to throw away defence for playing haley 1 as agressively as i can with her 16inch control bubble. (14 + squire). i decided to try to leverage my early game and use her Temporal Barrier as my main defensive stratagy. It is not much more than a -2 def but it also can slow the opponents advance, giving me an extra turn to figure a way out ot through hard questions.
I know on my feat turn haley will ne at zero camp and i will be relying on my lions share of shooting. Yet as i go through scenerios in my head the list seems as though it can respond to a large amount of questions while asking 2 key questions.
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