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Post by paradox on Oct 31, 2018 0:29:20 GMT
Here is a statement by Pagani in my gaming groups FB page about the restriction of divine inspiration from model to warrior model. "One of the reasons I fought for cutting it was because of how much better all the beasts got. Substantial point drops with stat bumps means it was over the top in my eyes." Take from that what you will. For me I really wish we had a chance to test the model both ways during CID.I am also bummed our faction loses out on a potentially faction defining ability which would allow us to remove some of our reliance on primal. Outside of that one complaint, everything else is basically perfect in my eyes. So overall I have a very positive outlook on this CID. Had warpwolves gotten MAT7 base, Id agree.
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Post by oncomingstorm on Oct 31, 2018 3:28:09 GMT
Here is a statement by Pagani in my gaming groups FB page about the restriction of divine inspiration from model to warrior model. "One of the reasons I fought for cutting it was because of how much better all the beasts got. Substantial point drops with stat bumps means it was over the top in my eyes." Take from that what you will. For me I really wish we had a chance to test the model both ways during CID.I am also bummed our faction loses out on a potentially faction defining ability which would allow us to remove some of our reliance on primal. Outside of that one complaint, everything else is basically perfect in my eyes. So overall I have a very positive outlook on this CID. But there are living beasts that didn't receive substantial updates (the pureblood and feral did not see any stat increases, and the shadowhorn hardly changed). The only beasts that got dramatically better were the Riphorn and the Stalker. Moreover, the new living beasts and the CID Blood Priestess were tested in the same CID cycle. I saw precisely one person take any kind of real issue with the ability (and that was only in terms of stacking it with HoF, which could be solved by keywording it if it was in fact a problem). It was the same all through CID, if problems were going to emerge, they would have been flagged in CID. I mean, seriously...I'd take less issue with this if we weren't also seeing crap like the SG/Derp Turtle/Judicator-with-double-HoF in other factions, but labelling something 'too strong' on the back of internal testing alone feels like a kneejerk. Virtually everything else about the update is fine, but that changes leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It's a big enough change to that model's core function that the blood priestess might as well not have had a CID at all, because no one was using that ability on warrior models (consistently) in CID.
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Post by jisidro on Oct 31, 2018 10:04:59 GMT
Are you saying there aren't good ranged units without hunter?
It certainly made them worthwhile.
Basically, yes. Terrain has to matter or we are not playing a wargame...
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Post by paradox on Oct 31, 2018 11:40:03 GMT
Terrain has to matter or we are not playing a wargame... It does matter. Tharn blood pack are just better at exploiting it.
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Post by bloodhawk on Oct 31, 2018 15:34:13 GMT
Here is a statement by Pagani in my gaming groups FB page about the restriction of divine inspiration from model to warrior model. "One of the reasons I fought for cutting it was because of how much better all the beasts got. Substantial point drops with stat bumps means it was over the top in my eyes." Take from that what you will. For me I really wish we had a chance to test the model both ways during CID.I am also bummed our faction loses out on a potentially faction defining ability which would allow us to remove some of our reliance on primal. Outside of that one complaint, everything else is basically perfect in my eyes. So overall I have a very positive outlook on this CID. But there are living beasts that didn't receive substantial updates (the pureblood and feral did not see any stat increases, and the shadowhorn hardly changed). The only beasts that got dramatically better were the Riphorn and the Stalker. Moreover, the new living beasts and the CID Blood Priestess were tested in the same CID cycle. I saw precisely one person take any kind of real issue with the ability (and that was only in terms of stacking it with HoF, which could be solved by keywording it if it was in fact a problem). It was the same all through CID, if problems were going to emerge, they would have been flagged in CID. I mean, seriously...I'd take less issue with this if we weren't also seeing crap like the SG/Derp Turtle/Judicator-with-double-HoF in other factions, but labelling something 'too strong' on the back of internal testing alone feels like a kneejerk. Virtually everything else about the update is fine, but that changes leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It's a big enough change to that model's core function that the blood priestess might as well not have had a CID at all, because no one was using that ability on warrior models (consistently) in CID.
Very well said. I hardly think a single point of strength on 3 beasts (Gnarlhorn, Riphorn, and Stalker) qualify as a game breaking stat bump. As for the points, putting our beasts on par with the rest of the game doesn't even count as a significant points drop. It's just where things should have been originally. At the end of the day I just get irked by the idea such a drastic change was changed behind closed doors. Additionally, if you leave it as is and it becomes too powerful, you change it a month later in a dynamic update. As it is, we just never get the opportunity to explore what this could have done for the faction.
I can't take it anymore though, I have to move on with my life, lol. I am moving on to focusing on what we did get.
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Post by elshinare on Oct 31, 2018 16:41:24 GMT
Pagani said stacking HoF and DI were bad on warbeasts...but you can still put it on LotF, whitemane, wolf rider champion, Nuala...DI is still good on Kromac2 Baldur2 and Kromac1 as well.
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Post by streetpizza on Oct 31, 2018 18:21:13 GMT
Pagani said stacking HoF and DI were bad on warbeasts...but you can still put it on LotF, whitemane, wolf rider champion, Nuala...DI is still good on Kromac2 Baldur2 and Kromac1 as well. Don't forget Caul!
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Post by jisidro on Oct 31, 2018 20:16:09 GMT
Pagani said stacking HoF and DI were bad on warbeasts...but you can still put it on LotF, whitemane, wolf rider champion, Nuala...DI is still good on Kromac2 Baldur2 and Kromac1 as well. Don't forget Caul! And the Judicator
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Post by bloodhawk on Oct 31, 2018 22:30:07 GMT
Hopefully this interaction gets removed for things like the Judicator. If it is too powerful on a warpwolf, it should be too powerful on any beast / jack.
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Post by elshinare on Nov 1, 2018 0:21:30 GMT
Hopefully this interaction gets removed for things like the Judicator. If it is too powerful on a warpwolf, it should be too powerful on any beast / jack. Hey, let's ask Pagani why it's okay in other factions. I don't buy that warpwolves are too strong arguement
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Post by oncomingstorm on Nov 1, 2018 4:18:01 GMT
Hopefully this interaction gets removed for things like the Judicator. If it is too powerful on a warpwolf, it should be too powerful on any beast / jack. Hey, let's ask Pagani why it's okay in other factions. I don't buy that warpwolves are too strong arguement As long as we've got P+S 20 Warmongers, Double HoF-Judicators with the ranged presence to wipe heavies off the board in an activation, and a supreme guardian that kills virtually anything it gets in melee with, I do not even slightly buy that divine inspiration on beast (in a single theme. on a single attachment. at the cost of RFPing a warrior model) was even close to being a problem.
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Post by Forsaken on Nov 1, 2018 5:03:26 GMT
I can't help but feel that Pagani wasn't really present for the CID only for the playtesting after. Personally, I think the present rules are probably fine though.
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Post by paradox on Nov 1, 2018 12:49:01 GMT
Hey, let's ask Pagani why it's okay in other factions. I don't buy that warpwolves are too strong arguement As long as we've got P+S 20 Warmongers, Double HoF-Judicators with the ranged presence to wipe heavies off the board in an activation, and a supreme guardian that kills virtually anything it gets in melee with, I do not even slightly buy that divine inspiration on beast (in a single theme. on a single attachment. at the cost of RFPing a warrior model) was even close to being a problem. I gotta say, for all the hype around judi, Ive yet to shoot down a heavy in one go. The rockets are too unreliable. But I HAVE gunned down heavies with the revelator.
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vlad
BattleBox Champ
Posts: 53
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Post by vlad on Nov 1, 2018 13:17:46 GMT
Limiting the ability to warrior models only and making it four points made it an option instead of an auto-include. I personally though it was the strongest ability of all when the CID rules were first released, and can understand it getting limited to warrior models. Albeit very powerful, I don’t think it was broken by any means, but it might have been limiting the design space for future Circle releases.
Still happy with the Shaman though.
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Post by oncomingstorm on Nov 1, 2018 20:19:50 GMT
As long as we've got P+S 20 Warmongers, Double HoF-Judicators with the ranged presence to wipe heavies off the board in an activation, and a supreme guardian that kills virtually anything it gets in melee with, I do not even slightly buy that divine inspiration on beast (in a single theme. on a single attachment. at the cost of RFPing a warrior model) was even close to being a problem. I gotta say, for all the hype around judi, Ive yet to shoot down a heavy in one go. The rockets are too unreliable. But I HAVE gunned down heavies with the revelator. Speaking from personal experience, I have had heavies shot off the table by the judicator. Woldwardens, Warpwolves, Woldwatchers (not heavies, but comparably durable), even Wold Guardians. If a Judicator gets to unload all of it's guns on a heavy, and that heavy is not in cover...very little survives. Oddsmachine gives about a 45% chance of one-rounding a Khador Heavy, for instance. (with Sev0, Battle, and HoF).
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