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Post by raginrok on Oct 14, 2018 0:54:12 GMT
As I am working through and unlocking the art of Alchemy I have started building modules of capabilities. Mostly these modules are built to ask your opponent's army questions they must answer and that group models together that synergize together.
I have been playing around with a 42 point module of Prospero + Vulcan + CG Mechanik. This one is obvious but early game it is a shooting platform (Turn 1-2), mid-game (turn 3-4) it is a debuff platform that is a must remove for your opponent and Late game (turns 5-6)... If Prospero or the Vulcan are still around it means your most likely winning.
Models: Prospero - his job is primarily casting Guided Fire almost every turn (maybe not turn 1 unless you go 2nd and your opponent is aggressively moving to engage you). If They run and engage the Vulcan you just load him with a few focus and crush whatever is in you while using your debuffing Alchemical Vent that best suits the situation. Thee Vulcan - It kills stuff, makes your opponents army unhappy because of huge base and Alchemical Vent it has massive board presence. Two Aqua Mortuum Rockets per turn will affect the movement of your opponent's army in most cases. Expect a lot of attention. CG Mechanik - This guy hides behind the Vulcan and repairs Prospero or the Vulcan to keep the vents going or give Prospera a few boxes back if he gets winged.
While the base cost is 42 almost every time you take this module it will cost 37 because Prospero should be free no matter the theme force being used.
What other modules are you all working with?
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CG Modues
Oct 14, 2018 13:39:53 GMT
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Post by disgruntledwargamer on Oct 14, 2018 13:39:53 GMT
I question the wisdom of letting a jr warcaster run a colossal.
Which warcaster wants prospero working the vulcan? What defenses are you using to keep prospero alive. Against which factions do you see that strategy as a good play? Certainly not one with access to shadow fire and long range guns.
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Post by Korianneder on Oct 14, 2018 16:28:13 GMT
I question the wisdom of letting a jr warcaster run a colossal. Which warcaster wants prospero working the vulcan? What defenses are you using to keep prospero alive. Against which factions do you see that strategy as a good play? Certainly not one with access to shadow fire and long range guns. It's actually really easy to keep him alive against everything except backlash/feedback. He can end his turn 8 inches behind the vulcan easily behind some sort of cloudwall or with double shield guarding vanguards. I regularly run him with the vulcan in a Syvestro list and every game the vulcan dies before he does.
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CG Modues
Oct 16, 2018 8:33:41 GMT
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Post by disgruntledwargamer on Oct 16, 2018 8:33:41 GMT
It's actually really easy to keep him alive against everything except backlash/feedback. He can end his turn 8 inches behind the vulcan easily behind some sort of cloudwall or with double shield guarding vanguards. I regularly run him with the vulcan in a Syvestro list and every game the vulcan dies before he does. well then maybe I am seeing a local meta issue there.
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Post by Valcaro on Oct 16, 2018 9:56:18 GMT
It's actually really easy to keep him alive against everything except backlash/feedback. He can end his turn 8 inches behind the vulcan easily behind some sort of cloudwall or with double shield guarding vanguards. I regularly run him with the vulcan in a Syvestro list and every game the vulcan dies before he does. well then maybe I am seeing a local meta issue there. Can you elaborate what exactly can get prospero killed in your meta? I'm sincerely interested
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CG Modues
Oct 17, 2018 6:07:52 GMT
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Post by disgruntledwargamer on Oct 17, 2018 6:07:52 GMT
]Can you elaborate what exactly can get prospero killed in your meta? I'm sincerely interested A lot of my experience is watching other journeymen ran in other factions, but I would expect the same strategies for solo hunting applies to cg. I am starting to see a few of the cygnar guys blowing the dust off their Sons of the Tempest, and not with Haley or Caine either. Siege1 and Stryker1 are making appearances with caine0. Siege is pretty good at getting in the shots with mage sight and his cannon. Gun mage captain adept shadow fires the vulcan, followed by gun mages using moment of clarity for clouds. Ace riding on Caine0 can either shadow fire or trick shot. At this point, if prospero has focus, that's 2 shots absorbed. The next two can come from either hunters or chargers, and a shield guard might help, but the volume of follow up attacks becomes an issue. The riflemen are pretty good at killing a solo. In a low model count list, as a colossal sometimes demands, the blazers will try to flank to threat the rear. Speaking of rear flanks, the trolls do okay with bears invading the back of the army. Yes, prospero is 8" behind, but who's watching his flank? Yes, the vulcan takes the wind out of their sails, but with access to tons of sprays, prospero can't hide behind much of anything. Trolls dont seem to have a problem slamming a wall of dudes out of position and opening up holes for beasts. Khador with arcing fire can shoot right over the vulcan and blocking jacks as long as prospero isn't within an inch of the los blocker. Cloud walls have both the mist speaker and lynus and edrea acting as counters. I am seeing thise guys pop up everywhere. That's how I've seen good support pieces (my TB krielstone, other guy's jr warcaster, etc) get killed recently. My thought on Prospero is to run him with a supressor or maybe a retaliator, and maybe possibly both, or multiple retaliators, but not much more.
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Post by skathrex on Oct 17, 2018 10:13:25 GMT
Most of these can be countered by a single fact: Range. As Korianneder mentioned you just keep him 8" behind the vulkan. Thus your opponent has to get respekt the melee range of the Vulcan leaving a giant 15" between prospero and targets not engaged by the vulcan. I play jacks on Malakov in Khador and he just stays at the edge of the board and is rarely in any danger. Only some Arc nodes with spells could be a problem.
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CG Modues
Oct 17, 2018 13:23:43 GMT
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Post by disgruntledwargamer on Oct 17, 2018 13:23:43 GMT
Most of these can be countered by a single fact: Range. As Korianneder mentioned you just keep him 8" behind the vulkan. Thus your opponent has to get respekt the melee range of the Vulcan leaving a giant 15" between prospero and targets not engaged by the vulcan. I play jacks on Malakov in Khador and he just stays at the edge of the board and is rarely in any danger. Only some Arc nodes with spells could be a problem. Doesn't Malekov have a sac ability though?
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Post by Korianneder on Oct 17, 2018 13:38:52 GMT
]Can you elaborate what exactly can get prospero killed in your meta? I'm sincerely interested A lot of my experience is watching other journeymen ran in other factions, but I would expect the same strategies for solo hunting applies to cg. I am starting to see a few of the cygnar guys blowing the dust off their Sons of the Tempest, and not with Haley or Caine either. Siege1 and Stryker1 are making appearances with caine0. Siege is pretty good at getting in the shots with mage sight and his cannon. Gun mage captain adept shadow fires the vulcan, followed by gun mages using moment of clarity for clouds. Ace riding on Caine0 can either shadow fire or trick shot. At this point, if prospero has focus, that's 2 shots absorbed. The next two can come from either hunters or chargers, and a shield guard might help, but the volume of follow up attacks becomes an issue. The riflemen are pretty good at killing a solo. In a low model count list, as a colossal sometimes demands, the blazers will try to flank to threat the rear. Speaking of rear flanks, the trolls do okay with bears invading the back of the army. Yes, prospero is 8" behind, but who's watching his flank? Yes, the vulcan takes the wind out of their sails, but with access to tons of sprays, prospero can't hide behind much of anything. Trolls dont seem to have a problem slamming a wall of dudes out of position and opening up holes for beasts. Khador with arcing fire can shoot right over the vulcan and blocking jacks as long as prospero isn't within an inch of the los blocker. Cloud walls have both the mist speaker and lynus and edrea acting as counters. I am seeing thise guys pop up everywhere. That's how I've seen good support pieces (my TB krielstone, other guy's jr warcaster, etc) get killed recently. My thought on Prospero is to run him with a supressor or maybe a retaliator, and maybe possibly both, or multiple retaliators, but not much more. Siege has to be within 14 so he's in melee of a colossal. Caine0 has to start within a few of inches of the Vulcan outside of some spirit door shenanigans, why is he not dead? Trick shots can do some work but they're unboostable dice off 6. Gun mages need 6 to hit and are dice off 6. And if everything in the army is attacking him what horrible mistakes did I do to get in that situation. If my opponent has ambush I won't put prospero on a flank. What's protecting him would be the same thing protecting him in any other list where he didn't have a Vulcan. In my Syvestro list, probably a battle engine and a Toro who still present a credible forward threat. That's just basic dealing with ambush. There are no range 13 sprays, that being 8 inches plus roughly the Vulcan base size. So they're not spraying prospero through the vulcan. There's a big difference between protecting a krielstone that has to play forward to protect your army and protecting prospero who can stay back behind a single model. Everything you listed can be played around with good positioning and recognizing the threat from your opponent. Then once the vulcan dies I use super fuel to make him speed 8 and send him off to have fun.
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CG Modues
Oct 17, 2018 13:58:43 GMT
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Post by skathrex on Oct 17, 2018 13:58:43 GMT
Most of these can be countered by a single fact: Range. As Korianneder mentioned you just keep him 8" behind the vulkan. Thus your opponent has to get respekt the melee range of the Vulcan leaving a giant 15" between prospero and targets not engaged by the vulcan. I play jacks on Malakov in Khador and he just stays at the edge of the board and is rarely in any danger. Only some Arc nodes with spells could be a problem. Doesn't Malekov have a sac ability though? He does, but he often stands way behind them in my case.
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Post by phobus on Oct 18, 2018 20:08:20 GMT
I agree with OP about the benefits of Vulcan on Prospero. It’s expensive and situationally risky but well worth it. With the number of ranged attacks the Vulcan has, guided fire is crazy strong with him especially when clearing infantry. Similarly the Vulcan on Gearheart does a huge amount of damage with Hot Shot. You can live the dream and drop Prospero/Vulcan into a Mackay list and get both boosted attack AND damage rolls during feat turn.
Another common module I plan on using is Retaliator and max unit of CGI for 28 pts. Strong and versatile damage combining oil shot with CGI’s fire shot and the retaliator has tech against cloud walls which otherwise shut the CGI down.
For def skew I like Rocketmen + WA + CA + Rhupert for 23/29 pts. This not only allows a def 18 against ranged with any caster (def 20 with transmutation) it also helps with the first turn run predicament. You can run and still have def 16 Rocketmen during turn one. Being able to grant tough once they’re in melee is a handy option too.
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Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
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Post by Juris on Oct 18, 2018 22:49:51 GMT
]Can you elaborate what exactly can get prospero killed in your meta? I'm sincerely interested A lot of my experience is watching other journeymen ran in other factions, but I would expect the same strategies for solo hunting applies to cg. I am starting to see a few of the cygnar guys blowing the dust off their Sons of the Tempest, and not with Haley or Caine either. Siege1 and Stryker1 are making appearances with caine0. Siege is pretty good at getting in the shots with mage sight and his cannon. Gun mage captain adept shadow fires the vulcan, followed by gun mages using moment of clarity for clouds. Ace riding on Caine0 can either shadow fire or trick shot. At this point, if prospero has focus, that's 2 shots absorbed. The next two can come from either hunters or chargers, and a shield guard might help, but the volume of follow up attacks becomes an issue. The riflemen are pretty good at killing a solo. In a low model count list, as a colossal sometimes demands, the blazers will try to flank to threat the rear. Speaking of rear flanks, the trolls do okay with bears invading the back of the army. Yes, prospero is 8" behind, but who's watching his flank? Yes, the vulcan takes the wind out of their sails, but with access to tons of sprays, prospero can't hide behind much of anything. Trolls dont seem to have a problem slamming a wall of dudes out of position and opening up holes for beasts. Khador with arcing fire can shoot right over the vulcan and blocking jacks as long as prospero isn't within an inch of the los blocker. Cloud walls have both the mist speaker and lynus and edrea acting as counters. I am seeing thise guys pop up everywhere. That's how I've seen good support pieces (my TB krielstone, other guy's jr warcaster, etc) get killed recently. My thought on Prospero is to run him with a supressor or maybe a retaliator, and maybe possibly both, or multiple retaliators, but not much more. Things that kill 14/14 Juniors usually aren't enough to kill Prospero. He has 2 more ARM, and 3 extra boxes. When you can overboost, that difference is massive.
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Post by danfromchicago on Oct 19, 2018 14:29:32 GMT
One of the major differences, IMO, between Prospero and other character Juniors is that he is a support piece to models not in his battlegroup. And a passive one with Vet Leader as well.
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CG Modues
Nov 6, 2018 13:24:02 GMT
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Post by disgruntledwargamer on Nov 6, 2018 13:24:02 GMT
Lynus, Edrea and Morely: 9 point healing module
Three Trancers at 9 points: play like a unit of runeshapers
Double Ace at 8 points; playing into flying armies
Dirty Meg and the Toro for pathfinding countercharge at 16 points.
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Post by Havock on Nov 9, 2018 3:16:06 GMT
One of the major differences, IMO, between Prospero and other character Juniors is that he is a support piece to models not in his battlegroup. And a passive one with Vet Leader as well. The new Zeroes are pretty much playing outside of their mini-battlegroup as well. Though not quite this passively.
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