gmonkey
Junior Strategist
I, for one, welcome our Infernal Overlords.
Posts: 313 
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Post by gmonkey on Oct 8, 2018 19:04:12 GMT
Since the advent of ThemeMachine, I've heard it said time and again that themes are PP's new way of balancing the game, and that they can't allow this theme's models to appear in that other theme because it would allow for janky combos and throw off game balance.
But you can always play out of theme.
I'm interested - what cross-theme combos in Cygnar would allow for that kind of crazy jank, and is it ever enough to make playing out of theme viable?
The first thing that comes to mind for me is Jakes1 with Gallant, for a DEF15 no-knockdown heavy. But I'm sure there's more. It would be super-interesting to build a list that made use of as many of these as possible, and to see whether playing out of theme could ever be competitively viable despite the loss of all the free solos.
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Post by droopingpuppy on Oct 8, 2018 21:38:58 GMT
Just for anti-armor ranged damage output, you can combine:
-Storm Strider
-Arcane Tempest Rifleman
-Horgenhold Artillery Corps
With Hunters and Dynamo you can dismantle much things before they got you. If you think you can't one-round something then you can either put Trencher Express Team or hire Alten Ashley. You can also put some Trencher Chain Gun Crews to harrass the enemy advance in the same time.
And you can enjoy Thorn and Dynamo with any caster too.
Not to mention about Gobber Tinker, who is the cheapest Repair option.
If you are not bothered to use Storm Lances, Horgenhold Forge Guards will serves you as non-fragile Weapon Master unit. You can throw away cheap Press Gangers as an actual jammer.
Also, our Mercenary Attachments are usually better than Squire as well. On the out of theme list, unless you are thirst for control range you have almost no reason to pick it.
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cain
Junior Strategist
Posts: 243
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Post by cain on Oct 10, 2018 17:47:32 GMT
Sadly i see no combo or list, which make players want to go outside themes.
Havent seen a list outside themes in tournament or causual play for a year.
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gmonkey
Junior Strategist
I, for one, welcome our Infernal Overlords.
Posts: 313
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Post by gmonkey on Oct 10, 2018 20:28:25 GMT
Sigh. I know - that's why I wanted to throw this out there and see if anybody could come up with anything. It seems like if themes are really there to prevent overpowered combinations, that we could maybe make use of those overpowered combinations, or at least find a couple that would make a list worth playing.
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Post by onijet01 on Oct 11, 2018 2:35:01 GMT
To be honest i think seige 1 comes closest to being good out of theme.
But this is due to the fact he offers only explosivo as a friendly faction spell.
So he can capitalize on running mercanary infantry with its own supports and really only needs to worry about warjacks.
In a theory im looking up for infantry bassed critical mass i found seige can be a good cygnar option.
His feats also good with both black 13th and blazers for their brutal damage shots but lets be honest a charging worrior will average more damage
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Post by droopingpuppy on Oct 11, 2018 3:36:35 GMT
Yeah. Even on MKII(and maybe MKI) Brisbane1 was quite Mercenary friendly caster because his tools alter the terrain and affect the enemy, therefore he is not the picky caster. His nature is not changed ever since.
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Post by darkangeldentist on Oct 11, 2018 22:51:26 GMT
I often try to think up lists that are out of theme but the points advantage of themes makes it a hard sell in a lot of cases.
Character jacks with different casters is the main reason I look outside of theme. Kraye with any of our character jacks is pretty amazing but Rowdy and Brickhouse stand out in particular because cavalry rules and reposition 5" on them is just amazing. (Admonition is pretty nuts with them too!)
I like Gallant with Jakes2 because a DEF 15 heavy with dodge and positive charge is just... well it's a bit more than just nice.
I'm curious to combine some of our more specialist solos and see what synergies come out of it. Nemo3 with some stormsmith stormcallers, Bastian Falk, a firefly and perhaps Gorman or Hutchuck for rust (hell, we could even throw in Aiyana & Holt with Jonas into the equation) and see what they can zap, it should be entertaining at least. These ideas usually end up as way too much support bloat though and that's just unsupportable in the current state the game is in.
Jakes1 running Gallant is very cute, stick them in a Haley3 list and it's bordering the absurd.
I do genuinely miss running gun mages and rangers together.
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Post by droopingpuppy on Oct 12, 2018 0:35:16 GMT
Well, is the free model makes things so better? Especially when all you can get by it is no more than sub-par models. In theme force your choice is quite limited, so you can't have that much good stuffs.
Even for some discounts, only discounting junior and/or Squire enough to only pick this? About 8 points(consider Squire's counterparts) of discount is not so bad but that's already a thing in the theme forces of MKII. Well, it have more broader choice, though.
Some theme lacks essential piece as well. For example, although I like Trenchers but even if I want to spam them Gravedigger is not an option for me because it lacks Journeyman Warcaster - and it means you can't sustain your heavy warjack.
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Oct 12, 2018 13:58:52 GMT
Jakes2 with Gallant and Maxwell Finn comes to mind. I don't know what kind of infantry I'd run with her tough. Sword Knights maybe?
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gmonkey
Junior Strategist
I, for one, welcome our Infernal Overlords.
Posts: 313
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Post by gmonkey on Oct 12, 2018 14:45:04 GMT
A DEF-skew army with Maxwell Finn, Savio, sword knights and Gallant would be so fun. Too bad those solos are so damn expensive when they're not free solos.
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Post by darkangeldentist on Oct 12, 2018 20:53:17 GMT
A DEF-skew army with Maxwell Finn, Savio, sword knights and Gallant would be so fun. Too bad those solos are so damn expensive when they're not free solos. It's a pity that Savio is only friendly faction in storm division. (Which is necessary to make him a valid target for pretty much any buff spell. Total agreement that their cost is pretty steep for normal play. Haley3 with all those guys (Versh too if I'm honest) along with Bastian Falk would make for a wonderful DEF skew list. (Jakes1 running Gallant.) |
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Post by droopingpuppy on Oct 13, 2018 7:22:28 GMT
The sad thing is Gallant will not accept Acosta in the first place....
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Post by challenger on Oct 15, 2018 8:57:36 GMT
Well, is the free model makes things so better? Especially when all you can get by it is no more than sub-par models. In theme force your choice is quite limited, so you can't have that much good stuffs. Even for some discounts, only discounting junior and/or Squire enough to only pick this? About 8 points(consider Squire's counterparts) of discount is not so bad but that's already a thing in the theme forces of MKII. Well, it have more broader choice, though. Some theme lacks essential piece as well. For example, although I like Trenchers but even if I want to spam them Gravedigger is not an option for me because it lacks Journeyman Warcaster - and it means you can't sustain your heavy warjack. what about the trencher journeyman? |
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Post by droopingpuppy on Oct 15, 2018 9:29:11 GMT
Well, is the free model makes things so better? Especially when all you can get by it is no more than sub-par models. In theme force your choice is quite limited, so you can't have that much good stuffs. Even for some discounts, only discounting junior and/or Squire enough to only pick this? About 8 points(consider Squire's counterparts) of discount is not so bad but that's already a thing in the theme forces of MKII. Well, it have more broader choice, though. Some theme lacks essential piece as well. For example, although I like Trenchers but even if I want to spam them Gravedigger is not an option for me because it lacks Journeyman Warcaster - and it means you can't sustain your heavy warjack. what about the trencher journeyman? The point is, he lacks Arcane Shield, which is essential for the survival of our heavies(except for Centurion and Brickhouse). Although I do think that Trencher Warcaster Lieutenant is a good model, despite of his bad reputation. |
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