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Post by Big Fat Troll on Oct 5, 2018 6:37:56 GMT
Yeah, this old saw again. FWIW, I actually like the Slag Troll, it's just hard to slot one into a list. People kept saying that the lack of an animus sinks him, and I think that's fair enough. A common ask is for full reinstatement of his Mk2 animus, but then we might just spam them. At one point, I had suggested a new animus that granted +2 to ranged attack damage rolls, but I have now refined that idea.
Acid Ammo- RNG 6, Cost 1 Target FF model's ranged weapons gain +2 POW.
This solves the blast damage problem. Still, it gives the Slag a unique niche and helps Kriel Company deal more damage.
So what could break this? Not the Impaler or Ice Troll, because Rage is still better for them and that hasn't been a problem. This would be very nasty on a Bomber but the opportunity cost of not using Far Strike is fairly high. Much the same can be said of Grissel 2 or any warlock with a gun unless their base range is high enough to not need Far Strike very often, and I don't see one POW 15 shot from Grim being a problem.
The other lights only get up to POW 14 with this, though the Winter Troll's spray could stack it with the Northkin Elder for a total of POW 16. That is strong but does require a significant investment of points.
If anything breaks this, it's the Mountain King with Gunny, but several gargs and colossals can become terrors with the right 2 or 3 buffs. Still, that is where testing would have to begin if it were done.
Next would be the Battle Engines, especially since we have only one animus that can go on them now, and that's Dozer's.
What if this change were only useable in Kriel Company? As another theme benefit, perhaps. Too weird?
Any thoughts on this regardless?
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Arcaux
Junior Strategist
Posts: 724
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Post by Arcaux on Oct 5, 2018 8:26:14 GMT
I actually really am in favour of a damage buff that can only be used in Kriel company.
My initial thought had been a solo for the 12 Factions of Christmas.
I do agree the Slag needs an animus, but I'm not sure how you limit it if it's a damage buff. Personally I'd love to get some anti healing in faction.
if the Slag trolls animus was Entropic Force "Cost 2, Target self, Models within 5 inches can not have damage removed for one turn" Basically I worry about the lack of anti healing in Trolls. Harby's recent resurrection has only proved this and to me the Slag troll represents a metallic sort of death. It drops corrosion and I feel Entropic Force would be thematic.
As for your idea: Are we ok with 8 point winter trolls that spray at Rat6, Pow 16 before the caster does anything? How about Grissel2 with an extra 2 pow on her shots or a Glacier King with 3 Pow 18 shots? The answer is, I don't know if those are all ok, but that's initially where my mind went.
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Post by macdaddy on Oct 5, 2018 10:47:47 GMT
I really like the entropic force idea. Seems thematic and cool, also unique in faction.
The issue I have with +2 Damage is the misc pow bumps you would be able to toss out like that.
Gunny with 2 glacier kings at hot swapping snipe for 6 fully boosted Crit KD pow 18’s? *shudders* It would also affect the HHH. Pow 14 Flamethrowers and a Pow 18 oil bomb seems gross.
Yet outside of gunny and Grissel I don’t think it would be that bad. It would be a really excellent buff for KC. Doesn’t encourage units, but makes the single models much more viable like weapon teams. Pow 12 Pummlers And Pow 18 Thumpers would be legit.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Oct 5, 2018 13:10:00 GMT
When we too-briefly discussed Kriel Company in CID I noted that it doesn't have some of the tools that other gun lines do and I wondered what set it apart, let alone what its real advantage would be. I suggested that maybe we don't have great ranges or RAT or a lot of magic guns etc but an ability to buff stack into high-POW shots; we can't really do any particular thing better than any other gun line except hit hard. It made sense to me at least.
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Post by disgruntledwargamer on Oct 5, 2018 18:47:43 GMT
Wait wait wait. Lose corrosion immunity? I know it isn't a problem for everyone, but there are still a few corrosion heavy players out there.
And again... is the problem with elemental troll lighs the animus, or that it's spellcaster only, instead of target model/unit?
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Post by moridamn on Oct 5, 2018 22:33:30 GMT
Part of the problem is the animus is self, yes. The animus is worthless to self cast for the slag troll, who already has immunity to corrosion and doesn't really benefit from continuous corrosion being applied to its fists. Making it target model/ unit would still make him an unlikely choice, but it would at least make the animus no longer completely worthless.
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Post by macdaddy on Oct 5, 2018 23:21:07 GMT
Wait wait wait. Lose corrosion immunity? I know it isn't a problem for everyone, but there are still a few corrosion heavy players out there. And again... is the problem with elemental troll lighs the animus, or that it's spellcaster only, instead of target model/unit? It’s animus is pretty terrible. If it had a better animus it would be worth it for 10. The sucker will wreck any construct model it gets to.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Oct 5, 2018 23:32:40 GMT
Actually, if this were to cost 2 fury, would that be better?
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Post by cplmustard on Oct 5, 2018 23:58:20 GMT
How about RNG: self, COST: 1, this model gains immunity corrosion and its melee and ranged weapons gain Rust. It triggers on hit so there's some counterplay, doesn't stack with hutchuk so it can't get too bananas, and maybe gives a reason for horgle1 to see the table? Main thing to watch for would be if this starts to crank melee beast damage too high, or if warlock guns become excessive, for the second the fix would be RNG: self, target warbeast, not sure about the first but by the same token hutchuk already exists and hasn't cracked caen in half yet.
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Post by moridamn on Oct 6, 2018 3:04:10 GMT
Would counterblast be too much to have on a 10pt light?
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Post by disgruntledwargamer on Oct 6, 2018 18:04:03 GMT
How about RNG: self, COST: 1, this model gains immunity corrosion and its melee and ranged weapons gain Rust. It triggers on hit so there's some counterplay, doesn't stack with hutchuk so it can't get too bananas, and maybe gives a reason for horgle1 to see the table? Main thing to watch for would be if this starts to crank melee beast damage too high, or if warlock guns become excessive, for the second the fix would be RNG: self, target warbeast, not sure about the first but by the same token hutchuk already exists and hasn't cracked caen in half yet. I like this better. It seems to fit the style of the pyre troll and winter troll in that it provides a protection and an offensive benefit.
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mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
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Post by mazog on Oct 6, 2018 18:38:52 GMT
How about RNG: self, COST: 1, this model gains immunity corrosion and its melee and ranged weapons gain Rust. It triggers on hit so there's some counterplay, doesn't stack with hutchuk so it can't get too bananas, and maybe gives a reason for horgle1 to see the table? Main thing to watch for would be if this starts to crank melee beast damage too high, or if warlock guns become excessive, for the second the fix would be RNG: self, target warbeast, not sure about the first but by the same token hutchuk already exists and hasn't cracked caen in half yet. I like this better. It seems to fit the style of the pyre troll and winter troll in that it provides a protection and an offensive benefit. I can't argue with that, but I long to have counterblast in faction.
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Post by disgruntledwargamer on Oct 6, 2018 18:58:08 GMT
I like this better. It seems to fit the style of the pyre troll and winter troll in that it provides a protection and an offensive benefit. I can't argue with that, but I long to have counterblast in faction. we have a minion for that. Dhalia and skarath. Works well with Calandra.
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mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
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Post by mazog on Oct 6, 2018 21:41:24 GMT
I can't argue with that, but I long to have counterblast in faction. we have a minion for that. Dhalia and skarath. Works well with Calandra. but I want it for my warlock! B2 or G2 with counterblast would be hilarious, no? I don't think it would be much more broken than it is in the factions it already exists in, either.
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Post by onijet01 on Oct 6, 2018 22:37:40 GMT
we have a minion for that. Dhalia and skarath. Works well with Calandra. but I want it for my warlock! B2 or G2 with counterblast would be hilarious, no? I don't think it would be much more broken than it is in the factions it already exists in, either. Avtually counterblast, generates a melee or ranged attack as long as the enemy model ends its movement in the counterblast models cmd range. Yay free melee attavks
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