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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Oct 10, 2018 20:34:34 GMT
Sentinels are pretty busted now
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boozy
Junior Strategist
Posts: 429
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Post by boozy on Oct 10, 2018 20:35:54 GMT
Definitely good changes to Marketh. His lack of Oculus was always frustrating to me, as were his soul-driven caster support utility. After the MKIII nerf to Spell Slave, I rarely found a reason to take him.
I hope some people can post battle reports with testing here. My own schedule doesn't permit during the next two weeks. I'm not convinced on the Abidan changes, but hearing about it from field tests would help.
@skornedlover87: How do you like the spray on Makeda3, and how does it play into her game? I get Incite, but losing Eliminator puts a question mark or her playstyle for me.
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boozy
Junior Strategist
Posts: 429
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Post by boozy on Oct 10, 2018 20:36:40 GMT
Sentinels are pretty busted now As busted as MKII Snipe with Ancillary Attack?
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Oct 10, 2018 20:45:33 GMT
Sentinels are pretty busted now As busted as MKII Snipe with Ancillary Attack? More so, spray 10, poison, gunfighter shots under a caster like Xerxis 2 are what worries me
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boozy
Junior Strategist
Posts: 429
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Post by boozy on Oct 10, 2018 20:53:20 GMT
Everybody gets stuff ahead the curve somewhere. If the corner case where that's true is X2, that's not as bad as if it was with a Haley3 kind of 'caster/'lock. If anything, I just see it as even more reason to skip the Canoneer.
At what point value would you think the kit is appropriately valued?
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Oct 10, 2018 20:59:33 GMT
Everybody gets stuff ahead the curve somewhere. If the corner case where that's true is X2, that's not as bad as if it was with a Haley3 kind of 'caster/'lock. If anything, I just see it as even more reason to skip the Canoneer. At what point value would you think the kit is appropriately valued? If every CID cycle brings some stuff out ahead of the curve, that's just power creep/codex creep, I quit one gaming system over practices like that, I hope I don't lose trust in PP the same way. I would rather change the Sentinel kit rather than adjust points, it doesn't really matter if they are 14, 15 or 16 points if you can just win by spraying down their caster. I would maybe cut the spray down to 8, or lose gunfighter
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boozy
Junior Strategist
Posts: 429
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Post by boozy on Oct 10, 2018 21:09:11 GMT
I get the quit over power creep, but every cyle to tune up a model is also a chance to re-address overtuned ones.
Everything has a price point. If the Sentinels was higher, that might actually serve to give more space for the Canoneer.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Oct 10, 2018 21:15:24 GMT
I get the quit over power creep, but every cyle to tune up a model is also a chance to re-address overtuned ones. Everything has a price point. If the Sentinels was higher, that might actually serve to give more space for the Canoneer. I can count on one hand the number of 'tune downs' PP have done in CID, and have a few fingers to spare. It doesn't help for me that the release cycle is now batches of faction models, I much preferred the MK 2 release cycle where a book contained stuff for everyone, atm it just feels more and more like that other company
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Post by mcdermott on Oct 10, 2018 21:24:20 GMT
Everybody gets stuff ahead the curve somewhere. If the corner case where that's true is X2, that's not as bad as if it was with a Haley3 kind of 'caster/'lock. If anything, I just see it as even more reason to skip the Canoneer. At what point value would you think the kit is appropriately valued? If every CID cycle brings some stuff out ahead of the curve, that's just power creep/codex creep, I quit one gaming system over practices like that, I hope I don't lose trust in PP the same way. I would rather change the Sentinel kit rather than adjust points, it doesn't really matter if they are 14, 15 or 16 points if you can just win by spraying down their caster. I would maybe cut the spray down to 8, or lose gunfighter No its not. When the line of "the best" is moved, that is power creep. everything inbetween is just shuffling power levels.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Oct 10, 2018 21:31:48 GMT
If every CID cycle brings some stuff out ahead of the curve, that's just power creep/codex creep, I quit one gaming system over practices like that, I hope I don't lose trust in PP the same way. I would rather change the Sentinel kit rather than adjust points, it doesn't really matter if they are 14, 15 or 16 points if you can just win by spraying down their caster. I would maybe cut the spray down to 8, or lose gunfighter No its not. When the line of "the best" is moved, that is power creep. everything inbetween is just shuffling power levels. I would say 'moving the line of the best' and 'above the curve' are just different terms for the same thing
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Post by mcdermott on Oct 10, 2018 21:33:03 GMT
You'd be wrong
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Oct 10, 2018 21:34:59 GMT
Go on, enlighten me oh wise Senpai! Although I'm going to bed now, so won't read until the morning, night night!
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Post by mcdermott on Oct 10, 2018 21:47:16 GMT
Ok, So lets take the "TOP" list. Thats the line. As long as that line doesn't move (via lists that gain greater win % than whatever the "TOP" list currently receives) power isn't creeping, its just sloshing around somewhere between the best and worst lists.
EX: Lets say that the best lists right now manage like a 65% win rate, theoretically. Even if ANOTHER list comes along and starts garnering a 65% win rate, power likely hasn't crept, as to gain that win rate it would have to knock that "best" list down a peg since "best" lists get played more commonly than mediocre ones. Unless it starts claiming a HIGHER percentage the power level hasn't really moved.
In fact that sloshing around and increasing bad lists to be more competitive is imperative to the health of the game as a whole. Exalted is going to win a few games early as people learn to adapt to them, but the reality is, they're still going to be a mediocre LoS, which isn't tearing up the meta. Reach high hitting high armor high pow single wound melee, with a BE rather than Cavalry. LegoS but slower and more support dependent.
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granor
Junior Strategist
Posts: 353
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Post by granor on Oct 10, 2018 22:15:05 GMT
Seems like because list pairs exist in tournaments that improving the "lower win rate" list can cause the faction pair to win more while not dislodging the "TOP" list.
Am I misunderstanding your point here somehow?
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skormedlover87
Junior Strategist
Desperately searching for days off to game...
Posts: 517
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Post by skormedlover87 on Oct 10, 2018 23:35:58 GMT
Definitely good changes to Marketh. His lack of Oculus was always frustrating to me, as were his soul-driven caster support utility. After the MKIII nerf to Spell Slave, I rarely found a reason to take him. I hope some people can post battle reports with testing here. My own schedule doesn't permit during the next two weeks. I'm not convinced on the Abidan changes, but hearing about it from field tests would help. @skornedlover87: How do you like the spray on Makeda3, and how does it play into her game? I get Incite, but losing Eliminator puts a question mark or her playstyle for me. To me Eliminator was always so iffy that I never wanted to rely on it. Magic 6 attack spells suck. Now, she seems like such a boss. Admittedly less with the Abbadon change, but Marketh gives her better fury econony all day long. So as to the spray, it's corner case gold and occasionally useful. But otherwise just meh... It's good on Marketh though!
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