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Post by onijet01 on Oct 9, 2018 11:36:04 GMT
Ignore Shoe that ones a very unhelpful forum mite, good player i hear. So what is mentioned with the phrase reefers to 14/11. As a stat line thats on the higher curve of defence. Speed 7 mat/rat 6 (7 for leader) with a range 12 pow 10 and melee at rng 1 p+s 9 weapon master look great on paper. But the unit will suffer casualties from pow6 blast damage. They lack any anti range defence stealth, prowel, or force barrier making them fairly easily removed. Once lains close they average 3-4 models when charging in and need to bring a swing of 15+points to make thier cost worh it. That or remove all your opponents key supporters Don't worry I have lurked this forum extensively to know about shoe's antics. And ironically I actually found many a post by him to be genuinely helpful, once you bother to look beneath the trolling that is. That being said, I wonder if one point more in defense (which means Mat 7 still hits you on average) is really going to offset tough, dig in AND smoke bombs. Nyss have slightly above average defense, and that is all that's supposed to keep them alive and it doesn't even help against blasts. Trencher Infantry has the option to: 1. Not get shot at at all thanks to smoke. 2. Tough it out if the were to die. 3. Not die like flies to blasts. Nyss might be better when it comes to damage out put (even though Trenchers have Assault, so i wonder about that), but i fail to see how they "as survivable as Trencher Infantry without CA". Especially since the latter doesn't cost 19 points, so if you lose trencher models, thats still less points lost than if you lost Nyss models. Trenchers are only immune to shooting with caster support (reposrion based abilities. If your talking a dug in or smoked trencher unit hunter slsms the advantage into the nyss hu ters corner in that trade. Outside support (solos and casters) trenchers only saving grace is tough. But sense the game is not a vacuum their survivability can sky rocket. In retribution as an example nyss hunters can now benifit from both quicken and force barrier making the unit a speed 9 def 18(shooting) arm11 (blast immune) unit. So casters and supports can change states. Is the point my small post had
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Post by jisidro on Oct 9, 2018 12:55:29 GMT
i fail to see how they "as survivable as Trencher Infantry without CA". The way I read the chain of comments Shoe said that Nyss Hunters should cost 16 points, and Jisidro was comparing that proposed points cost (rather than the unit's survivability) to that of Trenchers. Thx Soul Samurai, that's it.
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Oct 9, 2018 15:07:26 GMT
Thank you all for your input! I think I get it now!
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on Oct 9, 2018 17:03:00 GMT
"unhelpful forum mite"
hehe
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on Oct 21, 2018 16:05:26 GMT
ok so dem devil dogs are mebbe 2 points overpriced, but lawd dem nets are the heat. it like having 9 solos with auto kd in ur army
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Post by michael on Oct 21, 2018 16:15:50 GMT
ok so dem devil dogs are mebbe 2 points overpriced, but lawd dem nets are the heat. it like having 9 solos with auto kd in ur army So many people frequently overlook the fact (because they don’t do the math) that with RNG 4, the nets can literally never miss.
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Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
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Post by Xintas on Oct 24, 2018 13:37:36 GMT
Don't worry I have lurked this forum extensively to know about shoe's antics. And ironically I actually found many a post by him to be genuinely helpful, once you bother to look beneath the trolling that is. That being said, I wonder if one point more in defense (which means Mat 7 still hits you on average) is really going to offset tough, dig in AND smoke bombs. Nyss have slightly above average defense, and that is all that's supposed to keep them alive and it doesn't even help against blasts. Trencher Infantry has the option to: 1. Not get shot at at all thanks to smoke. 2. Tough it out if the were to die. 3. Not die like flies to blasts. Nyss might be better when it comes to damage out put (even though Trenchers have Assault, so i wonder about that), but i fail to see how they "as survivable as Trencher Infantry without CA". Especially since the latter doesn't cost 19 points, so if you lose trencher models, thats still less points lost than if you lost Nyss models. Trenchers are only immune to shooting with caster support (reposrion based abilities. If your talking a dug in or smoked trencher unit hunter slsms the advantage into the nyss hu ters corner in that trade. Outside support (solos and casters) trenchers only saving grace is tough. But sense the game is not a vacuum their survivability can sky rocket. In retribution as an example nyss hunters can now benifit from both quicken and force barrier making the unit a speed 9 def 18(shooting) arm11 (blast immune) unit. So casters and supports can change states. Is the point my small post had Only immune, yes, but in smoke, they are better than the 14 defense that we are claiming is making the Nyss worth more points...so...even without support, they are better at basically everything (even potentially damage output if we're adding in assault).
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Post by Soul Samurai on Oct 24, 2018 14:20:55 GMT
Only immune, yes, but in smoke, they are better than the 14 defense that we are claiming is making the Nyss worth more points This seems like a bit of an over-simplification to me? Like, that's only against ranged and not melee, plus Nyss Hunters can often get Concealment to go up to DEF 16 (especially since they have native Pathfinder). Not saying that the Nyss aren't overpriced, only that Trenchers are not straight-up equal or better by every metric / in every situation, which is basically what it sounds like you're saying? Also Nyss Hunters work for Khador, so that's something in their favour.
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Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
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Post by Xintas on Oct 24, 2018 15:59:46 GMT
Totally fair. I was trying to take the stated approach of "with no support", and without any support, trenchers are able to more easily get larger numbers across the board. That doesn't mean there's no place for the Nyss or that they aren't the right call in lots of situations (support, game state, terrain layout, in melee vs at range, etc.). Even the High Shields are the right call under the right circumstances.
Also, that's not a positive. Their lack of contract discernment is a major black mark.
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on Oct 28, 2018 19:46:25 GMT
half my meta now thinks devil dogs are bulshit haha
2 years into mk3 and we just figgering this out
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Post by michael on Oct 31, 2018 17:00:22 GMT
half my meta now thinks devil dogs are bulshit haha 2 years into mk3 and we just figgering this out Eh... what are you gonna do? I was murdering people with Iron Fang Pikemen last edition back when Winter Guard and Kayazy were all the rage. I had a self-described serious player paired against me in a Steamroller once say “What are those? Are they new? I have never seen them before” when I dropped a double IFP list against him. “Um... Do you have any Khador players in your local area?” “Yeah, lots. I’ve never seen those models before. They only use Winter Guard and Kayazy.” “How long have you been playing?” “About four years.” “Oookaaaay...well, they’re called Iron Fangs. Here’s the card...” And then I proceed to murderkill his Asphyxious3 list with Butcher1 IFP. I would make people sad with Devil Dogs if I used my Mercenaries more than once a year.
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