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Post by dragash on Sept 2, 2018 17:13:17 GMT
I'm sure asking this will only serve to make me unpopular, but does anyone else find the selection of Circle Warlocks to be a little... dull?
I guess it's just because the faction has all these cool Warpwolves, Skinwalkers, Satyrs, Griffins, living/animated stone constructs, ancient horrors etc., and yet the actual warlocks are all just regular dudes. The only exceptions are Wyrmwood (who is merely tied to a regular dude), and Kromac (who still just looks like a big man even when supposedly at his most bestial).
I mean, I look at factions like Legion, which have casters ranging from 'normal' (at least in appearance) Elves and Ogrun to full on draconic monstrocities, not to mention a ton of stuff in between the two. Then you've got Cryx, which has human casters, Satyxis Casters, undead casters, mecha-lich casters, mecha-dragon-lich casters, etc.
Could circle not have a mini-Warpwolf caster or a living-stone caster or a satyr caster?
Maybe I'm alone in this, but I look at Circle's amazing selection of warbeasts and really want to play them... right until I remember that all these cool warbeasts are stuck being led by a regular human. Or a tree that comes with a free human.
To be clear, I don't mind some - or even most - Circle casters being human. I just wish there were other options besides 'a tree with a man attached' and 'Mr. Hyde'.
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Post by LoS Jaden on Sept 2, 2018 19:02:23 GMT
If you read any of the fluff, you'll find that circle has some of the most interesting warlocks from a character perspective of any faction.
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Post by reddust82 on Sept 2, 2018 19:09:20 GMT
If I understand the fluff correctly, the druids are the ones pulling the strings and bending the wills of all the cool things you mentioned for their own purposes. So while there is significant diversity in circle as you mentioned, the “ruling class” is rather homogenous, as it were. And for good or bad, that’s by design in the fluff. So it’s just a matter of how closely you want the fluff represented on the table, because sticking to the fluff means basically “normal” people as leaders (even though they are druids).
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Post by dragash on Sept 2, 2018 19:31:22 GMT
If you read any of the fluff, you'll find that circle has some of the most interesting warlocks from a character perspective of any faction. I wish that was reflected in their models. Their fluff could be so great as to embarrass Shakespeare himself and they'd still look just as dull on the table. If I understand the fluff correctly, the druids are the ones pulling the strings and bending the wills of all the cool things you mentioned for their own purposes. So while there is significant diversity in circle as you mentioned, the “ruling class” is rather homogenous, as it were. And for good or bad, that’s by design in the fluff. So it’s just a matter of how closely you want the fluff represented on the table, because sticking to the fluff means basically “normal” people as leaders (even though they are druids). Well, I was speaking purely in terms of models, as I'm far from an expert when it comes to Circle fluff. That said, could a druid not, for example, imbibe a special form of the warpwolf serum? Maybe one which doesn't enhance his size/strength warpwolves but instead allows him to retain his mind and spells? I mean, we've already got different forms of Warpwolf - including Loki (who "managed to maintain a measure of both his sanity and his humanity"). Is a warpwolf caster really so far-fetched? I'll admit that a wold-caster might be more difficult. Could a caster put his spirit into one or is that just not possible?
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Post by mcdermott on Sept 2, 2018 19:32:36 GMT
Uh? You have a warlock that hulks out between caster and beatstick, a tree with an impaled corpse as its ventriloquist dummy, a cav chick on a giant wolf....i mean...you could be Retribution.
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Post by dragash on Sept 2, 2018 20:06:21 GMT
Uh? You have a warlock that hulks out between caster and beatstick, a tree with an impaled corpse as its ventriloquist dummy I literally mentioned both of those. More than once. a cav chick on a giant wolf So... a human then?
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Post by mcdermott on Sept 2, 2018 20:27:07 GMT
I mean, thematically the circle is humans and tharn. Are you looking for like...a troll or something? It isn't like other factions are rolling in casters that are outside their particular factions primary species?
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Post by paradox on Sept 2, 2018 20:39:50 GMT
I'm sure asking this will only serve to make me unpopular, but does anyone else find the selection of Circle Warlocks to be a little... dull? I guess it's just because the faction has all these cool Warpwolves, Skinwalkers, Satyrs, Griffins, living/animated stone constructs, ancient horrors etc., and yet the actual warlocks are all just regular dudes. The only exceptions are Wyrmwood (who is merely tied to a regular dude), and Kromac (who still just looks like a big man even when supposedly at his most bestial). I mean, I look at factions like Legion, which have casters ranging from 'normal' (at least in appearance) Elves and Ogrun to full on draconic monstrocities, not to mention a ton of stuff in between the two. Then you've got Cryx, which has human casters, Satyxis Casters, undead casters, mecha-lich casters, mecha-dragon-lich casters, etc. Could circle not have a mini-Warpwolf caster or a living-stone caster or a satyr caster? Maybe I'm alone in this, but I look at Circle's amazing selection of warbeasts and really want to play them... right until I remember that all these cool warbeasts are stuck being led by a regular human. Or a tree that comes with a free human. To be clear, I don't mind some - or even most - Circle casters being human. I just wish there were other options besides 'a tree with a man attached' and 'Mr. Hyde'. Like fluffwise? So not rules crunch? How is it unlike any other faction, where all (or nearly all) casters are human? Are you suggesting Circle lends itself to more variety in warlocks? I mean, I guess, insofar as theres variety in the druid ranks? Other than Kromac and Iona, everyone is a druid (Wurmwood recruits from the druids, so Cassius was one, etc. but I guess it also counts as different). What other beings would be warlocks?
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Post by dragash on Sept 2, 2018 21:28:42 GMT
Like fluffwise? So not rules crunch? I was actually thinking mostly in terms of models, though I guess rules also come into it a bit. How is it unlike any other faction, where all (or nearly all) casters are human? I literally gave you examples of other factions where this most certainly isn't the case. Are you suggesting Circle lends itself to more variety in warlocks? I'm saying I wish we had some warlocks that more closely resembled the warbeasts they controlled. Let me give you an example to try and better explain what I mean: If I'm playing Legion of Everblight, I have the following choices of warlock: - 'Normal' Elves (Saeryn, Rhyas, Vayl, Kryssa, Kallus1*) - Eyeless elves (lylyth) - Ogrun (Thagrosh, Anamag) - Semi-dragon/mutation elf (Absylonia1) - Full dragon (Absylonia2, Thagrosh2) - Dragon-centaur (Kallus1) *I know Kallus is technically a weird phylactery thing, but he *looks* just like a regular dude in armour. I can run an Ogrun army which is actually led by a warlock who is himself an Ogrun. Or a dragon army led by an actual dragon warlock. Put simply, I have warlocks who not only run themes but embody them. With circle, I have the following choices of warlock: - Human (Baldur, Grayle, Kaya, Kreuger, Mohsar, Morvahna, Tanith, Thorle, Una) - Big human (Kromac) - Tree (Wurmwood) Do you see what I mean? If I want to make a Warpwolf army with circle, my only options are 'human who is apparently beastial but whose 'beast form' bears no resemblance to any of Circle's actual bests', 'human with a pet wolf' or 'a tree'. It's the same issue if I want a Wold army or a Bird/Griffin army, or a Satyr army etc. The best I can do is 'human who's really into stones' or 'human who's really into birds' or 'human riding a goat'. I don't know, maybe I'm the only one for whom this is an issue. It's just something I find sad, because I absolutely adore Circle's warbeasts but I just can't get invested in the humans leading them.
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Post by mcdermott on Sept 2, 2018 22:30:33 GMT
You're comparing druids to the literal dragon fleshwarping horrorshow mutation faction though.
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Post by dragash on Sept 2, 2018 22:52:53 GMT
You're comparing druids to the literal dragon fleshwarping horrorshow mutation faction though. Granted, but my request still lies largely within what said druids have already been shown to be capable of. I'm even fine with the vast majority of circle casters still being ordinary humans (magic notwithstanding). I'd just like to have one or two that more closely resembled their warbeasts. As it stands, all we've got is Kromac and Wyrmwood. As above, I don't count Kromac because he simply bears no resemblance to any of our actual warbeasts - not in appearance and not in rules. He just looks like Mr. Hyde in fancy dress. And Wyrmwood is, well, a tree. Regardless, it seems I'm alone in wanting this, so I might as well just stop here.
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Post by gobber on Sept 3, 2018 1:20:27 GMT
Should they diversify visually on the table (and sell more models in the process)? Sure, always, so long as it's done in a fluff consistent way?
Megalith2 as a warlock (his two sentence fluff description does mention his independence and tendency to wander off with other wolds, that's a warlock recipe right there). Huge-based supermegs ought to be a sweet model as well. Brennos2: while we're turning spellcasting warbeasts into warlocks, here's a way to get the satyr warlock you wanted Skinwalker warlock: skinwalkers=partially transformed warpwolfs (ie the miniwarpwolf you wanted) with more of their minds intact. Not an unlikely thing for them to do eventually. They could always do una3: birbmom but riding a birb, though I don't think that's a particular priority over other design space areas
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Post by paradox on Sept 3, 2018 1:23:26 GMT
Like fluffwise? So not rules crunch? I was actually thinking mostly in terms of models, though I guess rules also come into it a bit. How is it unlike any other faction, where all (or nearly all) casters are human? I literally gave you examples of other factions where this most certainly isn't the case. Are you suggesting Circle lends itself to more variety in warlocks? I'm saying I wish we had some warlocks that more closely resembled the warbeasts they controlled. I mean. Thagrosh is an ogrun. Then a bigger ogrun with wings. Same Abyslonia or Kallus, but with elves. And its because of blight. Anamag is just a blighted ogrun. Circle, as you noted, has a tharn, then a bigger beast tharn, and a tree. Baldur is a human, then a wold-ish human. I think youre fishing for something that just doesnt exist in the fluff. And underselling Druids and the wilding, and what that means in the fluff.
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Post by mcdermott on Sept 3, 2018 1:51:52 GMT
And i mean, the warpwolf thing doesn't seem prone to the kind of willworking a caster would do. Skinwalkers are generally LUCKY to retain the use of tools and the elixir that makes them is a new and not terribly controlled thing.
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envoy
Read Page 5
Posts: 21
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Post by envoy on Sept 3, 2018 1:55:49 GMT
Personally, what drew me to this faction was "normal-looking" humans, small and relatively unassuming, controlling the giant, slavering monsters. It's also the fact that they're often so picturesque or "clean" looking on the outside, and yet really genocidal civilization murderers on the inside. Morvhana is especially intriguing to me--beautiful, clever, manipulative--but I like all of them. I also like the mystique that all blackclads command in the fluff. Sure, they look like "boring" humans, but whenever a blackclad walks into a village, people view them with dread and quail away. Also, there's the ever-so-slight-but-humorous advantage of obscurity on the tabletop: "Who is your warlock again?" (I point to Morv1, tucked safely behind a feral's rump.) "Oh, her?" Nobody asks that about Thagrosh2. I can see how that might bug some people, but I like it. This is who we druids are: unsuspected, manipulating from the shadows, gradually destroying (and therefore saving?) the world.
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