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Post by onijet01 on Sept 4, 2018 11:30:50 GMT
Do the groves just not die too easily without the right kind of terrain? And 6 points is a lot especially when you already have the nice mobile arc node of laris? Same with the razorwings, no stealth means they'll get shot. Its not about that at 2 points each they are worth it. If my opponent takes 3+ points worth of models to kill a grove its resources they did not place into my beasts or supports. If a heavy shoots or charges a grove (unit as well) its pulled a porpose as distraction. Thats even more important to make it a target on my feat turn and follow up alpha. Due to the heavy reliance ill have on the stones and ferrow bone grinders to leverage my fury issue. Laris serves as a last stitch channel model as thanks to elusive the ability for dodge and and guarddog stacking can save kaya. It also gives me an out for possible assassinations though the animi, so its not ment to be an arc node but more a bodyguard and protector for kaya 2 |
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Post by streetpizza on Sept 4, 2018 13:56:56 GMT
Right now I think the CID as is looks pretty good for Kaya2. I've always found that people try to design lists for K2 going really battle group heavy. While this can work her ability to support a large battle group is very limited. I personally try to use 1 or 2 beasts to alpha with on feat turn and to cheat a trade for 1 or 2 heavy warbeasts. From there the rest of the list needs to be relatively self sufficient as she's going to offer very little to other models. Note that Dog Pile only affects a single enemy model and forced evo is single target model. This is why you can't leverage a large battle group. The one advantage I find she can leverage very well is massed stealth to combat, most, gunlines. If you care at all then have a back up to play into Sloan. conflictchamber.com/#c8201b_-0j3TmDmCmJmRfr4kmIgf5f5y2NmF5q4_mQCircle Army - 74 / 75 points [Theme] The Devourer's Host !!! Your army contains CID entries. [Kaya 2] Kaya the Moonhunter [+24] - Feral Warpwolf [16] - Shadowhorn Satyr [11] - Warpwolf Stalker [17] - Tharn Blood Shaman [0(4)] Bloodweaver Night Witch [4] Lanyssa Ryssyl, Nyss Sorceress [4] Lord of the Feast [0(7)] Tharn Wolf Rider Champion [8] Shifting Stones [3] - Stone Keeper [2] Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew [2] Tharn Bloodtrackers (max) [15] - Nuala the Huntress [4] Tharn Bloodweavers [8] - Tharn Bloodweaver Haruspex [4] Looking at the above list you can see how I leverage my game plan. I'll be using blood trackers to clear infantry and the bloodweavers to force my opponent to the center of the board where they'll clump up to help me trade effectively. Lanyssa+dog pile give me a very high threat range against a single enemy heavy and the game plan will be to remove at least one heavy without giving my opponent a heavy in return to start trading up. Given that I really don't want to have to use primal the turn I remove that heavy the ability to clear upkeeps with the night witch is a big plus thus reducing def or arm in some cases. Shifting stones are always key for K2 so that you can port laris forward to use as an arc node and still bring him back using either his animus or Kayas feat. Being able to stealth the stones through a guaranteed prowl from the gobbers is often worth it to preserve this strategy. That being said dropping either the keeper or the gobbers for an upgrade on the stalker to Ghetorix is definitely something to consider. Wolf rider champ is there to score flags and hunt solos like a boss. The blood shaman is the only non stealth or prowl model so make sure to keep her behind the gobber cloud or she'll get her head blown off really quick. She's super valuable to helping Kaya do more in a turn or provide a damage buff to a beast for the big turn. LotF because he can apply grievous wounds where you need it, control flags and be a good place to put the hearts from the theme bonus. Possible changes: - Gobber or keeper +stalker out, Ghetorix in - LotF out Bridgid and Caul in. B+C are great armor crackers and can supplement the hit from the beasts - Wolf rider champ out, Tharn Shaman in for magic weapons to cover the cryx matchup or gremlin swarms This list would pair well with: - Kreuger2, Bradigus, Baldur2, Wurmwood all in Bones (counter shooting lists with armor or anti shooting LOS blocking) - Baldur 1 in Wild hunt, Dev host or Bones (blast imune to counter AOE lists and high def vs shooting for the turn that counts) - possibly also Kaya3 or Kreuger 1 in call (high def skew vs shooting) |
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Post by LoS Jaden on Sept 4, 2018 14:06:29 GMT
Yeah this isn't going to fight into anything that you want it to very well. It doesn't hit hard enough consistently enough, and you're spending points on models that I think are very subpar right now. Case in point, bone grinders, rager, and the groves is another Feral. She also wants a Stalker because she kills things very well with Flank, and Razorwings, while cute, don't really actually do much in reality. A second gnarlhorn is largely redundant as well, since counterslam is hard to impossible to use and you only need one for earth's blessing. Essentially I'm suggesting drop all the Groves, the Bone Grinders, the Razorwings, a Gnarlhorn, and the Rager and put in a Feral, Stalker, and Feralgeist. Then when CID drops you get a bunch of free points and can upgrade your solo boat a bit more. Just like alot of circle players would but my question. Have you tried this yet in cid? (Thats what this list was made to test) A few changes from cid (version 1) All living heavy warbeasts gain pathfinder Ferral warpwolves drop to 16 points. Gnarlhorn satyr goes to str 12 points unchanged. Shadowhorn satyr gain new animus elusive and fists gain beat back. If not give it a go. It may take a round or two but two waves of charges is always amazing. Also the pitential to add 4 inches of threat to any models charge grants a huge threat range averaging 13 for the gnarlhorn. Shadowhorns can free charge jump 5 attack fully load up and teliport back to kaya on feat turn. Making them force potentially up to 29 inches away allowing kaya to gain some emergancy feild control on feat turn. Razorwings are the hardest hitting gryphon in the stable for infantry control. Furthermore it can trample over huge base obsticals to get assassination vecors you would not otherwise have. Notes. Only taking the gnarlhorn for counterslam is idiodic its a cheap warbeast that in cid can hit decently hard. Razorwing Gryphon is amazing at what it does, controlling infantry. Gallows are a solo to hold flags or port up and contest zones as channel targets they also let you more easily draw line of sight to get off dogpile I mean proxy it and give it a go, you may actually be suprised what the list can do. Of course stratagy is 75% the battle Thank you for writing out your thoughts, it allows me to identify where your ideas are coming from. First of all, I wasn't seeing this as a CID list so now that you identify that I can comment further. First of all, Shadowhorns cannot jump after they charge. This limits their effective throw threat distance to 12 inches with any caster not named Kromac 1, Wurmwood, Grayle, or anyone with a flat speed or movement buff that doesn't require charges. Secondly, Razorwing griffons look fantastic at infantry clearing on paper until you realize that they need a landing zone, so that 10 inch trample which you have no way to speed up is really threatening about 8 inches of infantry on a 40 mm wide base. Interestingly, a Pureblood Warpwolf spray has a bigger surface area than that, and doesn't require the Pureblood to be in the middle of the enemy army. I would say that the Razorwing is mediocre at best compared to many of our other options when it comes to controlling infantry. Next up, Gnarlhorns are decent beaters in CID, it's true, but they're hampered by low fury and threat range. Dogpile and Hunters' Mark aside, why not just have a second heavy that innately threatens two inches farther and is more surviveable? You're casting Shadowpack most turns, so guns are theoretically not an issue, and with 26 boxes the Gnarlhorn is actually easier to kill than a Warpwolf by a stretch even though it has a point of armor. Gallows Groves are wasted points in this list, and could be used to turn the second Gnarlhorn into a Warpwolf of any kind. Why are they wasted? Because Laris is literally all you need. Gallows Groves make Dogpile threaten 17 inches, which isn't bad by any stretch, but Laris can get teleported 8 and then channeled through, activate, cast Spirit Door, and get back into another unit of stones for next turn over and over and over and over again. 20 inches covers almost all of the relevant board space and Laris is far more surviveable than all three Groves combined. Bone Grinders - again, wasted points. Fury management is done by the Shifting Stones if needed and making dogpile range 14 from Kaya only seems like it isn't worth five points. I've played these guys a ton with a number of casters, and this is not a place where they would shine. That extra five points turns your second Shadowhorn into a second Feral, a Stalker, or a Pureblood. I don't think that CotW is actually the right theme force for this casters (as stated above), but if I was going to play it in CotW it would look something like this: conflictchamber.com/#c8201b_-0W3TmD4M4M5HmCmJ4z5g5gmI5f5fCircle Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Call of the Wild !!! Your army contains CID entries. [Kaya 2] Kaya the Moonhunter [+24] - Feral Warpwolf [16] - Pureblood Warpwolf [17] - Pureblood Warpwolf [17] - Scarsfell Griffon [8] - Shadowhorn Satyr [11] - Warpwolf Stalker [17] - Wild Argus [7] Blackclad Wayfarer [0(4)] Blackclad Wayfarer [0(4)] Lord of the Feast [0(7)] Shifting Stones [3] Shifting Stones [3] Your Purebloods and LotF handle infantry, the Shadowhorn tries to cheat you a single early trade and then set the line for you to get your double alpha off, probably with Forced Evolution on it so that it throws farther and his harder to kill. I still like the Dev Host version better, but this is going to perform leagues better than what you are proposing into most of the field because it turns 11 points of support models into 11 points of models that kill stuff. |
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Post by Forsaken on Sept 4, 2018 23:44:42 GMT
I do find the groves to be pretty vulnerable without prowl and often too slow to contribute to such a mobile list. Any warbeasts that Kaya2 brings can get the benefit of shadowpack. I do like a wilder with her though, it offers fury management and a slightly larger control area if she spreads out.
I also feel LotF can't do enough without corpses here. Kaya2 also wants the gnarlhorns animus because no knockdown/stationary can save her ass.
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