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Post by phantomsig on Aug 23, 2018 1:01:02 GMT
But thats an improvment no?
Last WTC was 34 Denny1s (i assume mostly ghost fleet), and 27 coven1s, plus a mix of 12 others.
This WTC is 25 Gasby3s (again i assume mostly in BI), 25 Skarre1s, 17 Denny1s, 15 Denny2s, 14 Skarre3s plus a mix of 10 others.
I call that an improvement. Not perfect, but the correct direction.
I meant personally holding any negative opinion. I wasn't meaning to be so inflamatory.
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Post by oncomingstorm on Aug 23, 2018 2:01:37 GMT
But thats an improvment no? Last WTC was 34 Denny1s (i assume mostly ghost fleet), and 27 coven1s, plus a mix of 12 others. This WTC is 25 Gasby3s (again i assume mostly in BI), 25 Skarre1s, 17 Denny1s, 15 Denny2s, 14 Skarre3s plus a mix of 10 others. I call that an improvement. Not perfect, but the correct direction. I meant personally holding any negative opinion. I wasn't meaning to be so inflamatory. The proportion of Cryx players has also increased, despite the nerfs to the previous two top lists. There's been a lot of filling out in terms of representation by other factions, but assuming that the WTC players have accurately assessed the relative power level of their factions and chosen accordingly, Cryx has only gotten stronger. That's concerning, and I'll be watching the results carefully to see if Cryx's winrate is disproportionately high again this year. If it is, and we have two years of Cryx meta-dominance, that reflects quite poorly on PP, IMO. |
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demonic
Junior Strategist
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Post by demonic on Aug 23, 2018 2:54:55 GMT
due to WTC being a team tournament, having a cryx incorporeal/ghostly list is almost a must as far as win averages go. If one person in the opposing team doesn't have a list with much magical or limited model numbers, you can instantly make it an almost free win by simply putting them against your cryx player. The same goes with menoth denial lists and circle kreugar2 lists. You're trying to increase your average win ratio instead of insuring your own victory in every round.
As for armor skews screwing over circle other than bones and CotW, I'd have to agree with that statement, but there is still game with Devour's Host as well as a few niche lists with Wild Hunt that can clear the board. Never underestimate wolves under mini-feat when you have Wurmwood jankiness on your side. Still need to ask Kurt about that specific list though x.x
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Post by phantomsig on Aug 23, 2018 6:59:19 GMT
But thats an improvment no? Last WTC was 34 Denny1s (i assume mostly ghost fleet), and 27 coven1s, plus a mix of 12 others. This WTC is 25 Gasby3s (again i assume mostly in BI), 25 Skarre1s, 17 Denny1s, 15 Denny2s, 14 Skarre3s plus a mix of 10 others. I call that an improvement. Not perfect, but the correct direction. I meant personally holding any negative opinion. I wasn't meaning to be so inflamatory. The proportion of Cryx players has also increased, despite the nerfs to the previous two top lists. There's been a lot of filling out in terms of representation by other factions, but assuming that the WTC players have accurately assessed the relative power level of their factions and chosen accordingly, Cryx has only gotten stronger. That's concerning, and I'll be watching the results carefully to see if Cryx's winrate is disproportionately high again this year. If it is, and we have two years of Cryx meta-dominance, that reflects quite poorly on PP, IMO. I agree, the results of the Cryx games will be a good indicator. If their win:loss ratio is similar to other factions, then they are in a good place. |
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unded
Junior Strategist
Posts: 760
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Post by unded on Aug 23, 2018 8:32:43 GMT
I mean, is it really any surprise Cryx is so heavily represented? Cryx is the only faction with five competitive themes, while most factions are sitting with 2-3 (and poor Circle with 1). Nobody else can make a pairing covering as many bases as Cryx can, just on the basis of viable themes. I would be shocked if Cryx wasn't so thoroughly over-represented.
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Post by streetpizza on Aug 23, 2018 13:13:44 GMT
I mean, is it really any surprise Cryx is so heavily represented? Cryx is the only faction with five competitive themes, while most factions are sitting with 2-3 (and poor Circle with 1). Nobody else can make a pairing covering as many bases as Cryx can, just on the basis of viable themes. I would be shocked if Cryx wasn't so thoroughly over-represented. Its also a symptom of Cryx's natural predator Cygnar being continuously nerfed. Turns our paper is really really happy when scissors has one of its blades removed. Nemo3 or Haley2 could've been great counters to 9 slayers in their previous iterations but now not so much. For the record I'm not saying that those two lists should be restored or that the nerf weren't well executed just observing a consequence of their implementation. |
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Post by jisidro on Aug 23, 2018 13:36:07 GMT
Cygnar is the second most represented faction and those lists look scary as hell. I expect a lot of good results from Cygnar, anything playing beasts is scared of Express team's BS wounds working in tandem with Trencher long gunners.
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Post by streetpizza on Aug 23, 2018 13:47:15 GMT
Cygnar is the second most represented faction and those lists look scary as hell. I expect a lot of good results from Cygnar, anything playing beasts is scared of Express team's BS wounds working in tandem with Trencher long gunners. Agreed but that's not the point I'm making. The point is directly how Cygnar interacts with Cryx. Where Cygnar used to be Cryx's natural predator that dynamic has now been thrown on its head. Cygnar lacks any really good answer to Gaspy3 and slayers where before Haley2 or Nemo3 could scare the pants off that list forcing a Cryx player to go to thier other list of, usually, infantry spam where Cygnar would also clean up. Now not so much. Cryx can and will just run the board vs Cygnar with the slayers. |
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Post by macdaddy on Aug 23, 2018 13:49:06 GMT
After all the nerfs Cygnar and Cryx are still top of the heap...well done PP. Faction favoritism is real lol
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Post by jisidro on Aug 23, 2018 13:52:47 GMT
Cygnar is the second most represented faction and those lists look scary as hell. I expect a lot of good results from Cygnar, anything playing beasts is scared of Express team's BS wounds working in tandem with Trencher long gunners. Agreed but that's not the point I'm making. The point is directly how Cygnar interacts with Cryx. Where Cygnar used to be Cryx's natural predator that dynamic has now been thrown on its head. Cygnar lacks any really good answer to Gaspy3 and slayers where before Haley2 or Nemo3 could scare the pants off that list forcing a Cryx player to go to thier other list of, usually, infantry spam where Cygnar would also clean up. Now not so much. Cryx can and will just run the board vs Cygnar with the slayers. Are you assuming Gravediggers and they +4POW caster-independent bonus will fold to Slayers? |
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Aug 23, 2018 14:04:43 GMT
After all the nerfs Cygnar and Cryx are still top of the heap...well done PP. Faction favoritism is real lol What is interesting is comparing them to the 2017 stats (and because there are the same number of teams it's fantastically easy to compare)
In 2017 Cygnar had 52 players, in 2018 they have 33 players, that's about a 37% drop for Cygnar.
Also in 2017 Cygnar was 2nd with 52 players, 3rd place was Khador with 36, then Ret with 31
In 2018 Cygnar has 33, 3rd is Grymkin with 31 and 4th is Legion with 30.
So not only have Cygnar had a pretty massive drop in overall players, they are now pretty much level with several other factions, rather than being a clear 2nd place.
I would say the nerfs have made a significant impact.
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Post by streetpizza on Aug 23, 2018 14:14:39 GMT
Agreed but that's not the point I'm making. The point is directly how Cygnar interacts with Cryx. Where Cygnar used to be Cryx's natural predator that dynamic has now been thrown on its head. Cygnar lacks any really good answer to Gaspy3 and slayers where before Haley2 or Nemo3 could scare the pants off that list forcing a Cryx player to go to thier other list of, usually, infantry spam where Cygnar would also clean up. Now not so much. Cryx can and will just run the board vs Cygnar with the slayers. Are you assuming Gravediggers and they +4POW caster-independent bonus will fold to Slayers? On scenario, yes. |
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Aug 23, 2018 14:22:21 GMT
Agreed but that's not the point I'm making. The point is directly how Cygnar interacts with Cryx. Where Cygnar used to be Cryx's natural predator that dynamic has now been thrown on its head. Cygnar lacks any really good answer to Gaspy3 and slayers where before Haley2 or Nemo3 could scare the pants off that list forcing a Cryx player to go to thier other list of, usually, infantry spam where Cygnar would also clean up. Now not so much. Cryx can and will just run the board vs Cygnar with the slayers. Are you assuming Gravediggers and they +4POW caster-independent bonus will fold to Slayers? Aiyana can only Harm one Slayer a turn, also you are relying on keeping Ragman alive over multiple turns to get work out of him, which seeing as Hex Blast can scalpel him out is not a fantastic proposition.
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Post by jisidro on Aug 23, 2018 14:22:49 GMT
Are you assuming Gravediggers and they +4POW caster-independent bonus will fold to Slayers? On scenario, yes. How so? |
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Aug 23, 2018 14:27:15 GMT
Because Slayers can run 16", combined with +2" to deployment, and that SR18 has several ludicrously live scenarios in it.
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