juckto
Junior Strategist
Posts: 124
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Post by juckto on Aug 17, 2018 5:46:07 GMT
I just finished a fairly substantial update to the Warmachine University article on Cygnar. But I don't actually play Cygnar, so someone else should probably review it (and edit it if/when needed). warmachineuniversity.com/mw/index.php/Cygnar
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Post by droopingpuppy on Aug 17, 2018 7:01:59 GMT
Most Cygnar warjacks are actually have mediocre ARM and easily dismantled without protection even against ranged attacks. Although you should note the presence of Journeyman Warcaster with the drawback, which not only mitigates and usually make the ARM skew instead.
But it also means Cygnar is tend to have small numbers of heavies rather than spamming many heavies(except for Centurion, of couse), and we don't have expendable cheap heavy warjacks. So, unless you running Centurion spam, each Cygnar heavy or colossal warjacks expects one defensive upkeep spell to run - whatever Arcane Shield, Fortify, Fail-Safe or Sidekick, you should put one of it or bust unless the warjack is Centurion(or maybe Brickhouse and Triumph) or your caster is Haley3 that has +2 DEF bubble. Remember, Journeyman Warcaster is our Choir, Arcanists and Beast Handler. without him you should put the defensive buff in order to run heavies.
I didn't see Rangers on the many Cygnar lists recently, but was I the only person to not see their play?
Reinholdt, Sylys, Gorman and Gobber Tinker are also useful. Alten Ashley is also situationary useful.
And why you put Stormguard Infantry's pic, which shouldn't viewed much for the beginner(because they are usually considered as a trap)? What about Trencher Infantry, Stormblade Infantry, Storm Lances, or something else?
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Aug 17, 2018 8:34:03 GMT
The Stormwall and hurricane over overpriced at 39 points, call me salty and say I have #SwanPrivilege if you like, but that's the case.
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Post by droopingpuppy on Aug 17, 2018 9:24:59 GMT
I don't think so. These colossals are come with the cheaper package than the group of models that able to do the same.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Aug 17, 2018 9:29:20 GMT
I don't think so. These colossals are come with the cheaper package than the group of models that able to do the same. However the Colossal only gets one focus from power up, whereas multiple jacks each get one, so you have less focus on the board. The Colossal has fewer boxes overall then your other 39 points of warjacks combined, it is also a very large target, so a liability for getting debuffed and killed, which makes it very difficult to economically piece trade.
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snoozer
Junior Strategist
Posts: 467
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Post by snoozer on Aug 17, 2018 12:04:11 GMT
I think the intro is very much fine, as it is. THis does not need to go into deep toolkit-things and goves you a good overview about what you will enter into. Maybe a bit more on the themes, but they have their own topics anyways ...
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Post by darkangeldentist on Aug 17, 2018 13:34:23 GMT
It's a thorough piece but it does perhaps betray and outsiders perspective over some things. The introduction and summary of aesthetic is fine. Any quibbles are entirely too subjective to be worth mentioning for the purposes of critique.
I think you missed something with the summary of aesthetic and playstyle though. I would say that one of Cygnar's core features is accuracy. Be it ranged, melee or spells Cygnar aims for as little waste as possible when it comes to placing their attacks. It's dealing damage where Cygnar usually has to try harder.
Although it's not inaccurate to describe Cygnar jacks stat-block as 'average' it is also somewhat misleading. I would prefer the term 'middle of the road' since when looking at the different jacks Cygnar's lie somewhere between the averages of other factions. Armour is not typically as high as Khador & Protectorate and their DEF is not quite as high as Cryx. Cygnar jacks are also quite expensive, usually costing a couple of points more for a heavy warjack than with other factions. (Most other factions can start with a 10pt heavy whereas Cygnar pays 12pts.) Here's a suggestion for alternative wording for the last section of the "Faction aesthetic and playstyle" section;
"Cygnar jacks have generally 'middle of the road' stats, their ARM is not the best but also not the worst and the same can be said for their DEF and SPD values. They typically have good MAT and RAT scores and with support will rarely miss attacks."
The warcaster thoughts section leaves me uncomfortable but since this is an introduction piece I'm happier with this misrepresentation than the actual problem Cygnar has with it's casters.
The warjack thoughts piece I can offer some more reasonable criticisms. I realise that part of the point of this article is to praise Cygnar's strengths but this goes a bit too far. Defenders are the longest ranged threat in the game but I would not describe them as the premier shooting jack, mostly because they are not the most common ranged jack in Cygnar (the charger can now take a bow), I'm not even sure how frequently they appear these days? Centurions... okay fine, that one is true. Hammersmiths are somewhat pillowfisted beat-sticks that I've too frequently found couldn't deal enough damage to finish the job. Also not sure where you get the idea that hunters are ranged monsters... although I can see why that can be said of the charger. Sentinels do not do crowd control, D3 shots means that most of the time a charger is better. The sentinel is a great shield guard and a tough little jack thanks to its shield but's it a very passive and somewhat impotent board piece. The character jacks all bring something useful but at a cost, they are both expensive points-wise and only the Thunderhead appears natively in any themes. This means that Cygnar character jacks will only appear in theme lists with their bonded warcaster. Ace stands out for his bond being the stand-out thing about it because without the shot-types Ace is rather lacklustre. Cygnar colossals are still good but they are painfully expensive and somewhat pillow-fisted compared to other colossals.
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Post by droopingpuppy on Aug 17, 2018 14:10:56 GMT
I don't think so. These colossals are come with the cheaper package than the group of models that able to do the same. However the Colossal only gets one focus from power up, whereas multiple jacks each get one, so you have less focus on the board. The Colossal has fewer boxes overall then your other 39 points of warjacks combined, it is also a very large target, so a liability for getting debuffed and killed, which makes it very difficult to economically piece trade. That's why we need the others as well. Although the colossals are powerful, you need to protect it and take the ground. But, you know, it benefts by Arcane Shield. And, Although you need to put one focus to it every turn, after put 20 points on two Hunters you can't mimic what Stormwall can do by remaining 19 points - even after that you need two Trencher Chain Gun Crews as well as a Stormclad. It is impossible to mimic Hurricane's POW 16 guns as well. Perhaps you may try it with Storm Strider? However it is weaker, and unreliable after turn three or more and can't does much while in melee.
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juckto
Junior Strategist
Posts: 124
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Post by juckto on Aug 17, 2018 15:38:50 GMT
If you guys want to change something, you can. You don't even need to sign up for an account to make edits.
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Post by MacGuffin on Aug 17, 2018 18:26:09 GMT
Thank you, Juckto, for your efforts on Warmachine University. It's a great site and very helpful to new players like myself.
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Post by Rork on Aug 21, 2018 12:32:23 GMT
I do what I can ^_^
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