tanan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 209
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Post by tanan on Sept 18, 2018 10:59:08 GMT
Ain't nobody got time for that! Lucky for you I have been sick for couple of days... There's a lot of data to process. Let's start with Mercs and Cryx. Under each theme force is a list of available focus values and the average number of battlegroup models for that focus (excluding warcasters, warcaster attachments etc.). WTC 2018 MercenariesHammer Strike (no access to empower solos) Focus 6: 5 Llaelese Resistance (no access to empower solos) Focus 6: 2,66 Operating Theater (no access to empower solos) Focus 8: 3,5 The Irregulars (no access to empower solos) Focus 5: 4,33 Focus 6: 6,55 The Kingmaker's Army (no access to empower solos) Focus 6: 3 WTC 2018 CryxBlack industries (access to empower solos, no free empower solos) Focus 6, no empower solos: 7 Focus 7, no empower solos: 11 Focus 7, paid for empower solos: 6,9 Focus 9, paid for empower solos: 6 Dark host (no access to empower solos): Focus 5: 4 Focus 6: 3,69 Focus 7: 3,09 Focus 9: 3 Scourge of the Broken Coast (no access to empower solos): Focus 7: 3,73 Focus 9: 3 Slaughter Fleet Raiders (no access to empower solos): Focus 6: 4 Focus 7: 2,7 Ghost Fleet (no access to empower solos): Focus 5: 3 Focus 7: 3,28 No theme (access to empower solos, no free empower solos) Focus 7: 3
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tanan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 209
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Post by tanan on Sept 18, 2018 18:12:46 GMT
WTC 2018 Khador Armored Corps (access to free empower solos) Focus 6, no empower solos: 2,25 Focus 6, paid for empower solos: 2 Focus 7, no empower solos): 1,5 Jaws of the Wolf (access to free empower solos) Focus 6, free empower solo(s): 5,83 Focus 7, free empower solos(s): 3 Legion of Steel (no access to empower solos) Focus 6: 2 Focus 7: 2,4 Winter Guard Kommand (no access to empower solos) Focus 6: 2 Focus 7: 1,75 Wolves of Winter (access to free empower solos) Focus 6, free empower solos(s): 3 Focus 7, free empower solos(s): 2
WTC 2018 Cygnar Gravediggers (no access to empower solo) Focus 6: 2,16 Focus 8: 2,06 Heavy Metal (access to free empower solo) Focus 6, no empower solo: 4,33 Focus 6, free empower solo: 5,57 Focus 7, no empower solo: 4 Focus 7, free empower solo: 5 Focus 8, no empower solo: 3 Focus 8, free empower solo: 3,66 Sons of the Tempest (access to free empower solo) Focus 6, no empower solo: 2 Focus 7, free empower solo: 2 Focus 8, free empower solo: 2 Focus 8, paid for empower solo: 3 Storm Division (access to free empower solo) Focus 6, no free empower solo: 2,25 Focus 6, free empower solo: 2 Focus 6, paid for empower solo: 5 Focus 7, no empower solo: 2 Focus 7, free empower solo: 3,66 Focus 8, no empower solo: 2,33
WTC 2018 PoM Exemplar Interdiction (access to free empower solos) Focus 5, no empower solo: 1,36 Focus 6, no empower solo: 2,33 Focus 6, 1 free and 1 paid empower solo: 2 Focus 7, no empower solo: 2,33 Focus 10 no empower solo: 1,75 Guardians of the Temple (access to free empower solos) Focus 6, no empower solo: 2 The Creator's Might (access to free empower solos) Focus 5, 1 free and 1 paid empower solo: 2 Focus 6, no empower solo: 1 Focus 6, 1 free and 1 paid empower solo: 8,75 Focus 6, 2 free empower solos: 9,66 Focus 7, no empower solos: 1 Focus 8, 1 free empower solo: 4 The Faithful Masses (access to free empower solos) Focus 5, no empower solo: 1 Focus 6, no empower solo: 2,66 Focus 6, paid for 1 empower solo: 4,5 Focus 6, paid for 2 empower solos: 2 Focus 7, no empower solo: 3 Focus 10, no empower solo: 2,5
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tanan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 209
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Post by tanan on Sept 18, 2018 18:32:41 GMT
WTC 2018 Crucible Guard Prima Materia (no access to empower solo) Focus 7: 5,5 Prima Materia (no access to empower solo) Focus 7: 3
WTC 2018 CoC Destruction Iniative (no access to empower solos) Focus 6: 8,87 Focus 7: 5,92 Focus 8: 4 Clockwork Legions (no access to empower solos) Focus 6: 4 Focus 7: 4,66
WTC 2018 Retribution Defenders of Ios (access to free empower solos) Focus 6, paid for empower solo(s): 3 Focus 7, paid for empower solo(s): 2,86 Focus 8, no empower solo: 3 Focus 8, paid for empower solo(s): 2,6 Forges of War (access to free empower solos) Focus 6, paid for empower solo(s): 6 Focus 7, paid for empower solo(s): 6 Focus 8, paid for empower solo(s): 4 Legions of Dawn (access to free empower solos) Focus 7, paid for empower solo(s): 6 Focus 8, paid for empower solo(s): 2,66 Shadows of the Retribution (access to free empower solos) Focus 6, paid for empower solo(s): 6 Focus 7, paid for empower solo(s): 2 Focus 8, paid for empower solo(s): 3
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on Sept 18, 2018 18:49:28 GMT
wat is going on here tanman?
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tanan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 209
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Post by tanan on Sept 18, 2018 20:33:16 GMT
wat is going on here tanman? We were having an argument about focus7+ casters "needing" a empower solo(s) to be competive. My point is that it's not about the focus stat, but about other factors such as: 1) Does the caster have a powerful battlegroup ability (any field marshal, synergy, countercharge, road to war, warjack buffing feat, energizer etc.)? 2) Does the theme give you other benefits that outweight the free/available empower solo benefit? I mean, if there was a Khador jack theme that granted 2" extra deployment, free berzerker for every 30pts and gave all heavy warjacks carapace, but sadly didn't give out free Forge Seers, I'm pretty sure that we woudn't see any Jaws of the Wolf-lists... 3) Can the caster be included in a theme force that grants free empower solos for taking warjacks? Most faction empower solos are overpriced compared to other options. Even retribution arcanist are taken mainly because of concentrated power. Currently, Fiona doesn't have 1), 2) or 3). Even if there was a theme that handed out 2" extra deployment, free talon for every 30 pts and gave carapace to all heavy warjacks, I'm sure that she wouldn't be played in that theme. There are plenty of merc warcasters that synergise more with warjacks. She is a pure infantry caster.
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on Sept 19, 2018 0:46:27 GMT
i say they need them... sometimes!!
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Post by onijet01 on Sept 19, 2018 7:05:55 GMT
Tanan thanks for the breakdown. sorry you are under the weather. Im glad you made the list, as it looks when a caster pushes 3 or more models in a battlegroup they seem to lean towards at least one empower solo.
Hypothesis: power up is not enough to fuel battlegroups above 3 models affectively with out supports.
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tanan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 209
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Post by tanan on Sept 22, 2018 13:00:47 GMT
Tanan thanks for the breakdown. sorry you are under the weather. Im glad you made the list, as it looks when a caster pushes 3 or more models in a battlegroup they seem to lean towards at least one empower solo. Hypothesis: power up is not enough to fuel battlegroups above 3 models affectively with out supports. I mostly agree. If your caster has powerful melee-buffing battlegroup abilities, you probably want to play big battlegroup and empower solos that give your battlegroup more attacks. However, there was one Cygnar list and several Mercenary and Cryx lists with 4+ light warjacks and no empower solos. Stalkers, Chickens, Bunnies and Chargers can clearly hit above their weight class even without empower support. I tried new Fiona list last week against my friends CID Morvahna1. My list was: Mercenary Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Irregulars [Fiona 1] Fiona the Black [+31] - Buccaneer [6] - Buccaneer [6] - Buccaneer [6] - Buccaneer [6] - Freebooter [9] - Madelyn Corbeau, Ordic Courtesan [0(4)] Brun Cragback [16] Gudrun the Wanderer [0(5)] Lanyssa Ryssyl, Nyss Sorceress [0(4)] Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord [4] Captain Sam MacHorne & the Devil Dogs (max) [18] - Rover [15] Horgenhold Artillery Corps [6] Horgenhold Artillery Corps [6] Lady Aiyana & Master Holt [8] Even though I lost both HACs like a newbie during 2A to Lord of Feast, the list is very good in attrition and I quickly got back into game. I grinded his list to dust using my heavies and A&H. My friend conceded after his assassinationa attemp failed during 4A. I like the list a lot, because it's relying on cheap and reliable buccaneer boxes for contesting and not 4+ tough rolls. Random thoughts: - Lanyssa is the only solo with a specific purpose (provide hunters mark for heavies). Other solos are chosen for their durability. Now that I have several several pathfinder models in the list, I might change Rhupert for Alten or some other anti-hordes model. - It's kinda funny that boosted dmg rolls against Brun are done with 1 die during Fiona's feat turn. - Charge from flank- and hunters mark buffed Rover: 1x P+S19+4d6, 1x P+S16+3d6, 1xP+S15+3d6, 1xP+S19+3d6 - Gundrun is surprisingly good Telgesh Mark target
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walden
Junior Strategist
Posts: 136
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Post by walden on Sept 23, 2018 22:40:20 GMT
This is what I'm considering. I could run commodore instead of devils shadow I suppose.
War Room Army
Mercenary - New Army
Theme: The Irregulars 4 / 4 Free Cards 74 / 75 Army
Fiona the Black - WJ: +31 - Sylys Wyshnalyrr, The Seeker - PC: 0 - Galleon - PC: 39 (Battlegroup Points Used: 31)
Gastone Crosse - PC: 0 - Mariner - PC: 14 Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor - PC: 0 Master Gunner Dougal MacNaile - PC: 4 Eiryss, Mage Hunter of Ios - PC: 0
Alexia Ciannor & the Risen - Alexia & 9 Risen Grunts: 10 - Thrall Warrior Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5 Lady Aiyana & Master Holt - Lady Aiyana & Master Holt: 8 Press Gangers - Lass & 9 Grunts: 12 Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5 The Devil's Shadow Mutineers - Mar, Morland, & Zira: 8
THEME: The Irregulars ---
GENERATED : 09/23/2018 15:36:00 BUILD ID : 2067.18-06-10
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tanan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 209
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Post by tanan on Oct 9, 2018 21:43:39 GMT
Couple of iterations later...
Mercenary Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Irregulars
[Fiona 1] Fiona the Black [+31] - Buccaneer [6] - Buccaneer [6] - Buccaneer [6] - Buccaneer [6] - Freebooter [9] - Madelyn Corbeau, Ordic Courtesan [0(4)] Alexia, Mistress of the Witchfire [7] Brun Cragback [16] Lanyssa Ryssyl, Nyss Sorceress [0(4)] Thor Steinhammer [0(4)] - Ghordson Basher [9] Captain Sam MacHorne & the Devil Dogs (max) [18] - Rover [15] Lady Aiyana & Master Holt [8]
The list hits very hard (flanking, freely charging/slamming Basher and Rover), accurately (a lot of KD guns, channeled Affliction) and can usually get an scenario point lead thanks to resilient models (buccaneers, Sam and Madelyn). Alexia2 is a very interesting solo that should see more table time. In a addition to ranged RFP, she can single-handedly win the game if left unchecked.
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