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Post by boxfox on Jul 30, 2018 18:00:58 GMT
I've got a Summer Rampage tourney coming up this weekend. Working on a list for it. I've never done anything over 25 points...and that ended quickly. Jezraell doesn't seem to point at a specific theme (to me). It seemed like a good time to test weird ideas. Cryx Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Black Industries [Haley -1] Warwitch Jezraell [+27] - Kraken [36] - Kraken [36] - Nightwretch [0(7)] - Nightwretch [0(7)] Machine Wraith [2] Machine Wraith [2] Necrotech [2] Necrotech [2] Necrotech [2] Warwitch Siren [4] Warwitch Siren [4] Black Ogrun Ironmongers [6] Black Ogrun Ironmongers [6] Game plan is very simple: Jezraell gives each Kraken a focus. Siren's each give 1 focus. Krakens shoot stuff. Necrotechs and Ironmongers help ignore anything that shoots back. Use wretches to debuff anything that gets close so it's softer when it gets there. Krakens eat that stuff, too. Wraiths were filler, but can be useful if the enemy comes in with heavies. You can either have the heavies hit themselves, or just turn around and run away to give Krakens more time to pew pew. Jezraell stays within 5" of the Time Rift for as long as possible, so you control where it goes. If it jumps really far and would result in you getting out from behind your pet Krakens, bid it a good day and run in the other direction, lol. I'm pretty sure you can (with some practice and forethought) bounce the rift with your caster back and forth behind your front line. Start by aiming the rift backward so that it's behind your front line, and then send it back and forth. The rift always moves first, so you have the chance to relocate your army to keep Jezraell covered. If you have to do that and lose your Aim bonus, Jez's spell can help a bit, plus you still have lots of focus. The obvious way to beat the army is to run REALLY fast and get behind them to kill the caster, but I'll surround her with stuff to help prevent that and plan to barely move from my beginning part of the board, unless I get a map with a lake to hide in. Okay...hit me with all the stuff I got wrong.
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Post by boxfox on Aug 2, 2018 20:26:53 GMT
I'm shocked that no one replied at all to this. Over 70 views... O.o At any rate, I ended up going with a different list, as I was given permission to proxy Denny0, who is still in CID. Cryx Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Infernal Machines !!! Your army contains a CID entry. [Haley -1] Warwitch Jezraell [+27] - Deathripper [6] - Nightwretch [7] - Sepulcher [36] - The Withershadow Combine [9] Necrotech [2] Necrotech [2] Necrotech [2] Warwitch Initiate Deneghra [4] - Deathripper [6] Mechanithralls (min) [6] - Brute Thrall (3) [6] Mechanithralls (min) [6] - Brute Thrall (3) [6] Necrosurgeon & Stitch Thralls [0(4)] Necrosurgeon & Stitch Thralls [4] Much more solid list, I imagine. Necrotechs heal the Sepulcher, with the McThralls providing Shield Guard. Send the little guys out to die a bit and get them back. Plenty of nodes to threaten assassination if it comes to that. Let's see if we can get a comment before another 70 views.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Aug 3, 2018 6:38:46 GMT
I won't comment on the Summer Rampage part, as I haven't bothered to read the rules (yet) So about the list: I think pairing up Jezraell with Deneghra is a good choice. Making the latter FOC 5 really helps her to actually hit some stuff and allows her to upkeep Witch Mark as well as casting a boosted Curse of Shadows. FOC 8 casters, especially with a feat like that are also never bad. The problem with the Sepulcher is that it's not very good: it doesn't hit very hard and your only debuff is Curse of Shadows (from two different sources). Deadeye on it should be glorious indeed though. Note that you can cast Deadeye multiple times per turn, so more is better. The only hit fixers you have for the mechanithralls are Jezraell's feat, which is only once per game of course, and Time Bomb, which is single target. You seem to have invested almost half of your list into recursion for the Mechanithralls, but didn't actually take that many Mechanithralls. There are already lots of list out there that already counter recursion gimmicks and you're not making it all too hard to simply kill off your 2 units. Cygnar's electro-leaps will be rough. I don't think the nodes actually threaten assassinations as Venoms sadly don't tend to kill casters and your only other nuke is Time Bomb which costs 4. You say you haven't played any large games yet, so I'm going to assume you don't have all of these models. So what do you have available? If you want to go further into the ranged gimmick by exploiting Deadeye (and using the feat to get extra time to shoot) I would recommend Ghost Fleet (might have difficulty cracking armour) or if you want to go combined arms, I would take a look at Slaughter Fleet Raiders (you could probably afford to play a Kraken here). Sadly neither of those allow Denny 0. EDIT: so, this is just for shits and giggles anyway, so how about going all in on the shooting, so a variation on your first list: Cryx Army - 70 / 75 points [Theme] Black Industries [Haley -1] Warwitch Jezraell [+27] - Nightwretch [0(7)] - Kraken [36] - The Withershadow Combine [9] Warwitch Initiate Deneghra [4] - Nightwretch [0(7)] - Kraken [36] Black Ogrun Ironmongers [6] Black Ogrun Ironmongers [6] 5 points left for whatever you want. I originally had Sepulchers, but Deadeye only boosts the first shot and Sepulchers are all about volume. Put Deadeye on both colossals for the main gun, WSC can give you one of those, but they might be too many points, not sure. Denny gets loads of souls from anything hers kills. Feat basically protects your colossals from charges for a turn and the Iron Mongers should keep them in fighting condition against shooting. Having 2 units of them also lets you curse a unit for both Krakens to kill once the lines close. This'll be really bad on scenario, so not sure how it would work in a league.
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Post by tiberius on Aug 6, 2018 12:00:35 GMT
I didn't realize that deneghra 0 was released yet, as she isn't on my warroom. Warwitch Jezraell is a really good all round caster with a defense debuff in her feat, an armor debuff with curse of shadows, ranged unit/model support in deadeye, and a lot of strong control features with her feat and a few other spells.
She is really strong with a kraken, but with her, I was really wishing we had a really good strong ranged unit, like the nyss hunters for example. The ogrun smog belchers might be fun with her in a slaughter fleet raiders list. But really, a kraken or leviathan is your best bet for a good use of deadeye, as you surmised and others have said.
Your first list will have a few glaring weaknesses as in anything that can get to and one round a kraken will cripple your force. In addition, anything with good anti-ranged tech like Menoth, stealthed factions, incorporeal stuff, will give you fits.
Warwitch initiate deneghra was made to go with evil haley. The +1 focus for each is a huge boon. There is no list I would not take them together if I can.
Your second list looks like its a lot of fun and I think has some good staying power with the mechanithrall recursion boats going if you can keep one safe. You may run into trouble with their small command and so many models having to group up so closely especially with the 3 brutes. But especially on feat turn, they should be doing a lot of work for you. I personally like the sepulcher, especially if you can fill it with focus every round. I have never really needed it to hit harder than it does, but then I am typically fighting jacks with shields or max ARM 19 so the chain weapon tentacles do a lot of work for me.
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Post by boxfox on Aug 8, 2018 0:12:37 GMT
Thanks for the feedback! Denny 0 isn't out yet, but I asked and the EO's were okay with me using her. I'll proxy her in (with a converted Denny 1 or 2 if I have time before my match) just like Jez. I've never used McThralls, so the feedback on them is appreciated. At this point, going with the first list + Denny 0 seems to be where I'm at. The idea of dropping 2 colossals on the table just makes me feel all tingly. When it comes to not hitting things that are incorporeal, I'm relying on the super-healing of 2 units of Ironmongers and 2 Necrotechs to "force" them to get close to me. Then I can channel some spells down their throat. We do have a few Menoth players, though I haven't every fielded against them, so I really have no idea what they can do or how to counter it. Summer Rampage scenario is unique and doesn't require holding any zones, so lack of units or solos won't hurt there. As for not having the models, that is no hurdle at all. Since I started playing less than two months ago, I've been infected with a terrible disease that I call eBayitis. Good credit plus 1 button buying? I'm covered. I've already amassed over $2,000 (MSRP) of stuff, and probably have years of painting in front of me. O.o tiberius, you mentioned things 1-rounding a Kraken...that's a thing?!?! What can do that?!
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Post by Gamingdevil on Aug 8, 2018 6:22:41 GMT
tiberius, you mentioned things 1-rounding a Kraken...that's a thing?!?! What can do that?! It's definitely a thing. First thing to come to mind: Blackhide Wrastler under Rask. Rastler gets Rage and Fury, is now POW 23. If it has to pay to charge, it comes in with a POW 23 boosted damage roll, 2 POW 20 and buys 3 more POW 23, on average, assuming no misses, it deals 14.5 + 8 + 8 + 11 + 11 + 11 = 63.5 damage on average, so easily kills a Kraken. It gets worse if it doesn't need to charge. Note that this is just an example and other factions can do this as well. Weapon masters will also ruin your day, but your shooting should keep those in check. Your feat should help with getting the alpha, but without corpses, the Kraken doesn't hit very hard. Perhaps it would be a good idea to try to squeeze Ragman into the list. With Curse of Shadows and Dark Shroud, they would also start hitting at effective POW 23.
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Post by tiberius on Aug 8, 2018 10:48:59 GMT
Almost every faction has some sort of specialized beater, the right buffs and synergies to put a model or two in place to take out a colossal. Especially a squishier one like a Kraken that tends to have slightly less boxes than some of the meatier ones.
I have seen the Avatar of Menoth on full focus, choir buffs and other in faction buffs take out one in one round. It can get to P+S 22 before any sort of upkeep or buff spell assuming they are using choir for +2 to damage and eye of menoth for +1/+1 (the innate aura that severius 1 and 0 both have).
The choir of menoth can also do this little trick called passage, where it makes their warjacks unable to be targeted by non-magical ranged attacks. If you are relying on your krakens to take out or at least soften up the warjacks as they approach, you will be disappointed.
Khador and Skorne both come to mind as other factions easily getting a beater to one round a kraken, or even a mirror match against a debuffing cryx army. Deneghra1 in dark host can give a -7 armor swing and swarm it with ghostly weapon masters or just a swarm of bone jacks.
I am not saying it wont be a fun list, there are just a few weaknesses to be aware of. I think it sounds like a ton of fun, especially for a more laid back event.
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Post by boxfox on Aug 8, 2018 12:58:17 GMT
O.O
Okay...that's seriously scary...How are Cryx considered the "bogeymen" when other factions have stuff like that?! After I chose Cryx (because I like reanimator strategies in pretty much any game) and started learning about it, I started seeing a lot of complaints about how OP it is, but when our friggin colossals can be killed by a single heavy?!?! Bout to call BS on their complaints.
Luckily, my meta is mostly newer players. One plays Menoth with Choirs, but I haven't seen it in action yet. Another is about to go into our upcoming Journeyman's league with Minions (loose rules that allow pretty much any 0 point army). Also have lots of Khador, Legion, and some Retribution.
Fun and friendly are good, but winning is also good. How does Cryx compete when our stuff is so squishy?
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Post by tiberius on Aug 8, 2018 14:10:50 GMT
Like any glass cannon faction, your job isn't to stand and fight (though re-animator strategies aside, as that can take it as long as you are not going up against dedicated infantry removal lists like trolls band of heroes or cygnar light shows). Your job is to figure out how to get to the meaty center of their force, make it vulnerable and kill it.
That isn't to say that our faction cannot play with attrition or scenario, we have very good tools for both, any faction does now-a-days. Ghost fleet was a big boogyman until it saw some big nerfs (never ending re-animating pirate zombies and pirate ghosts that can kill anything with the right debuffs). Mechanithrall recursion is a favorite of mine. The Sepulcher isn't really popular to most people but I love it and my opponents hate it, along with a cloud of mechanithralls and brutes and some necrosurgeons. Unless they have the answer, you are going to probably outlast them.
What we excel at is getting our forces into places we shouldn't be able to get them with movement shenanigans, terrain ignoring abilities like ghostly, flight or leaping, spell support like ghost walk, occultation, or similar spells. Knockdown abilities and ranged support (the pop and drop) or spell assassination, or just straight up dudes charging the target that cannot be stopped by terrain or free strikes or even enemy models (curse of shadows upkeep spell).
This is of course my opinion. I will flavor it with I don't play in any big tournaments and my opponents are very casual.
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Post by tiberius on Aug 8, 2018 14:14:24 GMT
The flip side to facing something that can one-round a colossal is that there is an answer to that too. If you bring our bane warriors (weapon master infantry with an armor debuff), they will eat most things that can threaten a kraken. About 3 of those guys on a charge and average dice will eat most heavy warjacks.
Mechanithralls and Brutes can do this as well, just no so well unsupported. With a good buff from Skarre1 or debuffs from deneghra, they can chew through anything as well.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Aug 8, 2018 14:14:41 GMT
O.O Okay...that's seriously scary...How are Cryx considered the "bogeymen" when other factions have stuff like that?! After I chose Cryx (because I like reanimator strategies in pretty much any game) and started learning about it, I started seeing a lot of complaints about how OP it is, but when our friggin colossals can be killed by a single heavy?!?! Bout to call BS on their complaints. ... Fun and friendly are good, but winning is also good. How does Cryx compete when our stuff is so squishy? Like Tiberius said, we also have casters that can give huge damage swings, such as Asphyxious 1, Skarre 1 or Deneghra 1. We can compete through several different strategies, such as simply out-attritioning the opposing army, such as by reanimating fallen models, or simply overwhelming them by sheer numbers. Our models are fragile but are often on the fast and/or high defense side, so we can reach the enemy before they can effectively deal with us. In addition Cryx likes to work with debuffs rather than buffs. There are weaknesses to this approach (models that are immune to spells for instance), but in general it allows most Cryx list to apply a force multiplier to any model in the army. Many debuffs also have a control aspect, such as Curse of Shadows allowing friendly models to move through the affected models or Crippling Grasp reducing the output and speed of affected models. People hate seeing their units reduced to worthlessness so part of the complaining comes from there. Cryx also has wide access to Incorporeal models, which can be difficult to deal with if your opponents are not prepared for it. We also have many strong casters and themes, so more than most factions, it is harder to prepare for playing against Cryx because our pairings can be so varied. Bottom line is that our shenanigans usually pull us through, so some people can sometimes feel this is unfair. (but each faction has things that others might consider utter BS)
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Post by boxfox on Aug 15, 2018 11:25:02 GMT
Well, this was sort of a bust.
After dropping my army on the board, I started reading my theme bonuses to my opponent, and realized that Black Industries only grants Carapace to HEAVIES. There are none in my army.
I ended up not even playing the army. I played the 75 point version of my Journeyman's League army instead.
This was my first 75 point game and the first time I was able to actually use units. He played a Khador gunline with Victor (SCARY colossal), Behemoth, 2x Destroyers, and Widowmakers. I was running my own version of Dark Host with Skarre1.
I ended up winning with a well-timed feat turn and some good rolling.
Though it wasn't technically Summer Rampage, I did learn a lot about what you guys were talking about concerning our "tricks". Thanks for your time and input. This experience has solidified my faction choice (which is good, since I've got about $3k worth of models left to assemble and paint >.<).
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Zaku
Junior Strategist
Posts: 224
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Post by Zaku on Aug 15, 2018 15:59:57 GMT
Well, this was sort of a bust. After dropping my army on the board, I started reading my theme bonuses to my opponent, and realized that Black Industries only grants Carapace to HEAVIES. There are none in my army. I ended up not even playing the army. I played the 75 point version of my Journeyman's League army instead. This was my first 75 point game and the first time I was able to actually use units. He played a Khador gunline with Victor (SCARY colossal), Behemoth, 2x Destroyers, and Widowmakers. I was running my own version of Dark Host with Skarre1. I ended up winning with a well-timed feat turn and some good rolling. Though it wasn't technically Summer Rampage, I did learn a lot about what you guys were talking about concerning our "tricks". Thanks for your time and input. This experience has solidified my faction choice (which is good, since I've got about $3k worth of models left to assemble and paint >.<). Hah, yeah I almost missed the part about Carapace only applying to our heavies at first as well. Thankfully, from the experiments I have been running with our heavies in the Broken Coast theme... we do in fact have some real quality heavy warjacks if you can get them to where we need to be. I am a recent convert from Khador when I finally picked up playing Mk.III after we got got some new blood in town. Needed a break from Khador, which I had been playing on and off (mostly on) since the game dropped in Mk.I. Cryx has been such a welcome change with the silliness our models can pull off. Congrats on the win by the way!
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Post by Gamingdevil on Aug 16, 2018 6:30:18 GMT
boxfox ARM 19 and lots of boxes is normally enough to not die to shooting, unless it's a really powerful dedicated feat. That's why the Iron Monger are in there, to deal with the chip damage that shooting can deal. Jezraell's feat can stop charges to protect you from melee. But yeah, like I said, the list is sub-optimal and I would probably never play double Cryx colossals in a "real" game. Still congrats on the win, glad you found your bearings with the faction. Hope you don't hesitate to come back here when looking for advice
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Post by boxfox on Aug 19, 2018 15:35:47 GMT
POST IN PROGRESS - EDITING Our official Summer Rampage event was pushed back even further. More time to optimize. Relevant Information: Cryx - Warwitch Jezraell What if Skarre had captured Victoria as well as Gloria during the raid on their village? Victoria would have been a powerful Cryxian warcaster. When paired on the field of battle, there is no telling the devastation the twin Warwitches of Ingrane might have wrought.
Jezraell -1, aka Haley -1 BASE Small SPD 6 MAT 6 DEF 16 ARM 15 FOCUS 7 HP 15 WJP +27
Weapons Vortex Needle - 2" reach, P+S 12 melee weapon Damage Type: Magical - This weapon can damage incorporeal models. Brutal Charge - This model gains +2 damage on charge attacks with this weapon.
Abilities Warcaster - All warcasters come with a stack of standard special rules - most notably being awesome. Parry - This model cannot be targeted by free strikes. Arcane Vortex - This model can immediately negate any spell that targets this model or a model within 3" of it by spending a focus token. The negated spell does not take effect, but its COST remains spent. Soul Taker: Cull Soul - This model can gain soul tokens. When a living enemy model is destroyed within 2" of this model, this model gains the destroyed model's soul token. After this model replenishes focus during the next Control Phase, replace each soul token with 1 focus point. Duo [Deneghra] - While Jezraell is in Deneghra's CMD range, both models gain +1 FOCUS.
Spells Curse of Shadows - Cost 3, 8" range, Offensive Upkeep Target model/unit suffers -2 ARM and cannot make free strikes. A model can advance through an affected model if it has enough movement to move completely past its base. Deadeye - Cost 2, 6" range Target friendly Faction model/unit gains an additional die on each model's first non-spray ranged attack roll this turn. Domination - Cost 4, 8" range, offensive spell does no damage Take control of an enemy warjack with a non-crippled cortex. Warjacks are allowed to make a full advance, ignoring free strikes, and then make a melee attack. Can only be cast once per activation, and any given warjack can only be affected once per turn. Ghost Walk - Cost 2, 6" range Target friendly Faction model/unit gains Ghostly for one turn. (Ghostly - This model can advance through terrain and obstacles without penalty and can advance through obstructions if it has enough movement to move completely past them. It cannot be targeted by free strikes.) Time Bomb - Cost 4, 10" range, 4" AOE, POW 14 A model directly hit by Time Bomb suffers -2 SPD and DEF for one round. Venom - Cost 2, 8" spray, POW 10 Venom deals Corrosion Damage. Models hit suffer Continuous Corrosion.
Feat : Temporal Flux While in Jezraell's CTRL area, enemy models suffer -2 DEF. Enemy models/units activating in Jezraell's CTRL area must forfeit either their Normal Movement or Combat Action during their next activations. Lasts for one round.
Summer Rampage Scenario Time has fractured, and echoes of a past that never was are materializing. Temporal rifts flow like whirlpools across distorted battlefields where soldiers from both the present and from alternate pasts engage each other. Chaos and anarchy reign! The only hope of returning things to normal is to shut down the rifts, and see which version of history remains true in the end.
Setup Divide the table into four equal-sized quadrants. Place eight pieces of terrain on the table, with two pieces completely within each quadrant. No terrain feature can be placed within 3˝ of another terrain feature, with the exception of trench templates. This scenario uses Time Rift markers, represented by 50 mm bases. Starting with the first player, after terrain is placed but before models are deployed, each player places a single Time Rift. Time Rifts cannot be placed within a player’s deployment zone, or within 8˝ of another Time Rift marker or table edge. This scenario uses standard deployment zones (7˝ for first player, 10ʺ for second player).
Special Rules At the start of each player’s turn, the Time Rift placed by the active player shifts. The active player places a deviation template over the marker in any orientation, and places the Time Rift 2d6˝ in a direction randomly determined by the template. If the active player’s warcaster or warlock is within 5˝ of a Time Rift before it is placed, they choose the direction the Time Rift shifts instead of rolling randomly. If a Time Rift would be placed off the table, determine another direction. If a model enters into a Time Rift, or if a Time Rift is placed contacting a model, roll a d6. On a result of 1–3, time reverses, and the model immediately heals 3 damage points. On a result of 4–6, time flashes forward, and the model immediately suffers 3 damage points. If the two Time Rift markers are ever placed in contact with each other, the temporal distortion begins to degrade, and echoes from the past start to fade. Remove both Time Rift markers from the table. For the remainder of the game, warcasters and warlocks cannot transfer or reduce damage. Additionally, at the end of each player’s turn, their warcaster or warlock suffers 3 damage points.
Victory Conditions A player wins if they have the only warcaster(s) or warlock(s) remaining in play
YMMV, but I've been given permission to use Denny 0, so all of my strategy will revolve around that. Denny 0 [ Denny 0 can only be used in Black Industries and Infernal Machines. While that simplifies things, it is quite limiting. My initial BI list used Krakens because I was on a colossal kick and had 2 to play with. Carapace doesn't work with them. Lesson learned. My initial Infernal Machines list used a few small units of Mechanithralls and a Sepulcher, again because I was on the colossal kick. Its main issue was a lack of damage output. It relied on keeping all of the thralls around Jezraell and slowly walking her up the board while controlling the direction of the Time Rift, then basically throwing it at the enemy Rift to create the Temporal Distortion, and counting on the Necrosurgeons to heal Jezraell while the Distortion killed the enemy caster. Pretty convoluted, and unlikely to work. I've got a few ideas for new lists. This is a BI gun-line list. It features 4 Leviathans that will have full focus every turn, and some support to heal. The Overlords add more sprays for anti-infantry. I'm worried about the damage output and unreliable number of attacks. I know I'll be up against a lot of armor and at least one gun-line that will easily out-range me. It also suffers from only 1 arc-node for Jezraell, when I'd rather have at least 2. MODEL/UNIT POINTS
Jezraell -27
- Leviathan 16
- Leviathan 16
- Nightwretch 0
Warwitch Initiate Deneghra 4
- Leviathan 16
- Leviathan 16
- Nightwretch 0
Warwitch Siren 4
Warwitch Siren 4
Cephalyx Overlords 8
Cephalyx Overlords 8
Black Ogrun Ironmongers 6
Necrotech 2
Necrotech 2
TOTAL 75 / 75
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