|
Post by lerderk on Jul 30, 2018 16:40:33 GMT
My thoughts on Caine0 were like, ok he can buff things, cool. Ace, a Minutemen being pulled back making it like best warjack in the game... But then Haley2 came to my mind... ok so you can make Ace shoot twice, a minutemen go bonkers, hunters go....
Thunderhead Caine0 With Thunderhead With FireforEffect Upkept + Temporal acceleration + 1 focus from caine and 1 from arlan.
Activate Haley2: Telekinesis + Temporal Acceleration Activate Arlan, Focus Activate Thunderhead, 2" from TK, 5"SPD +2" Temporal. You move 9" then Bubble or Shoot (Pulse is a ranged attack so F4E works on every damage roll) After you destroy everything 6" from TH (15" away from his original position) You get Temporal Free attack You buy reload 1 with Power up focus, then boost the pow 14 with caine focus You buy reload 2 with Arlan Focus and finally another pow 14
And then you activate Caine0 and bring TH back with Spirit Door.
2 Boosted 14 and one 14 on a model 19" away from TH and then you pull him to safety. Boi....
|
|
Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
|
Post by Juris on Jul 30, 2018 19:56:28 GMT
It's a 25 point + package (literally 1/4th of your list) that in most games won't be helpful. By all means, try it. I suspect that you'll find that you pickup maybe 7-10 models over the course of the game with the Thunderhead unless your opponent makes a blunder. Meanwhile, you'll have lost on scenario because 25 points of your list is playing hide and seek.
|
|
|
Post by sludgeogre on Jul 30, 2018 20:50:14 GMT
I think Caine0 has some really intense possibilities with Haley2 and I'm trying to figure out a heavy metal list that doesn't lose on scenario with them while bringing a Hurricane with me. Idea there is Temp Accel and Fire for Effect on a Hurricane until it's likely the Hurricane has to engage and then swap Arcane Shield onto him. This way you're getting three slam shots a turn on the approach and the first one is always going to be a major threat for assassination, plus you can get a lot more work out of Haley after her feat is done since her lists tend to sometimes fall apart after her feat is done.
With Thunderhead, the question you're posing to your opponent is only "can you get away from this gun and still win on scenario" and the answer is yes 95% of the time. Boosted 14's get work done if you have a buttload of them, but just a few of them doesn't really do much at all, plus you're investing TK and spirit door every turn to get it done. This also means you aren't running up with Caine0 and thunderbolting stuff away with boosts for crits, which I honestly think he's far more valuable for than just pulling back Thunderhead or any other jack. I really think Spirit Door is great for the late game when you want to charge his jack in and bring it back or take some critical shots with Caine himself and bring him back to safety.
As Juris said, this is 25 points you're investing for some gunshots that can easily be avoided or just face tanked with the right army composition. It's also such an obvious trick that they'll likely either try to kill Caine0 or they'll just flank the hell out of that package and destroy the rest of your army before you really get to do anything with it.
|
|
|
Post by droopingpuppy on Jul 30, 2018 21:40:57 GMT
Well, boosted POW 12s and unboosted POW 14 won't damaging heavy much, unless you brings 9+ autohit POW 14s like as Assault of Stormblade Infantry. Even so its damage output is no more than the extra benefit.
Although the trick give us an usage for Thunderhead, for its survival issue as well as deliver it was always the problems(though we know that Haley2 is a good caster for it), but I don't think that it makes a serious issue. Autohit would be an issue, but apart that most factions are good at dispatching the enemy units, and Cygnar is good at in range already, making the trick less viable.
Anyway, the idea that bring back Thunderhead by Spirit Door is interesting. Although Spirit Door costs too much and Thunderhead is a focus hog all the times. How about do this with Dynamo?
|
|
|
Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jul 30, 2018 21:43:32 GMT
Outside of Caine0 supporting Siege1 in Heavy Metal, I am tempted to try him with a minuteman, long leash makes it easy to spirit door it back
|
|
|
Post by droopingpuppy on Jul 30, 2018 21:59:22 GMT
Well... IF we have an another instance of Power Booster solo in the future, however, although the module will costs too much it would be much better. -FFE effectively serves as the boosted damage roll by spend a focus point+also boosts the attack roll. -If we have two Power Boosters, we can make a character warjack(because both Thunderhead and Dynamo are characters) fully focused, while also benefit by FFE and make them effectively has 4(or 5) focus. If you want to abuse Energy Pulse it goes better. -Both Thunderhead and Dynamo are mid-range warjack so they expect enemy charge after they shoot. Spirit Door lets them to reuse their ranged weapons.
Although an additional Power Booster only means +3.5 average damage by an additional boosted damage roll, but 3.5 damage per 4 points is very good on ranged option, and if it is able to be reused then it goes better. Also other than them it is hard to using Power Booster to let boost the damage roll and make the additional damage, for most Cygnar ranged jacks are ROF 1 and quite accurate even without boosted attack roll(or controlled by Journeyman Warcaster so putting 1 more focus to also boost the attack roll is not an issue).
It is true that Dynamo needs more to sure hit such as Avenger or Pendrake, but it seems worth trying if we have something more.
|
|
|
Post by droopingpuppy on Jul 30, 2018 22:02:49 GMT
Outside of Caine0 supporting Siege1 in Heavy Metal, I am tempted to try him with a minuteman, long leash makes it easy to spirit door it back Is Minuteman only takes the anti-infantry role? Or give a focus by Arlan and enjoy two boosted damage rolls? Although it rarely able to Bounding Leap unless you can afford Arlan to cast Power Booster.
|
|
|
Post by mydnight on Jul 30, 2018 22:50:14 GMT
Caine0 can FFE a stormstrider and haley2 and temporal accelerate it for 3 nearly all fully boosted shots. And that leaves caine focus to shoot and spirit door himself. Much better threat than thunderhead and a lot of eleap as a bonus.
|
|
Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
|
Post by Juris on Jul 30, 2018 23:39:00 GMT
Personally, I enjoyed playing Caine0 and Ace as an independent hunter-killer package to take out important solos. They are very effective at that role.
|
|
snoozer
Junior Strategist
Posts: 467
|
Post by snoozer on Jul 31, 2018 14:41:51 GMT
I think the real Caine0 + Thunderhead combo is with Nemo1. He gets one less inch thread (3" locomotion), but with FFE and 4 Focus TH can Attack or pulse fully boosted, then buy 2 and boost both damage (auto hitting if the boosted to hit or pulse hit before).
I think alternatively any movement shenanigans with TH are stronger to pull him back after shooting to prevent enemies getting to TH. And the cool thing about Caine is, he can upkeep FFE and still shoot around his Jack still contributes (or is pulled back to caine standing in a safe spot).
|
|
Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
|
Post by Juris on Jul 31, 2018 17:04:05 GMT
I think the real Caine0 + Thunderhead combo is with Nemo1. He gets one less inch thread (3" locomotion), but with FFE and 4 Focus TH can Attack or pulse fully boosted, then buy 2 and boost both damage (auto hitting if the boosted to hit or pulse hit before). I think alternatively any movement shenanigans with TH are stronger to pull him back after shooting to prevent enemies getting to TH. And the cool thing about Caine is, he can upkeep FFE and still shoot around his Jack still contributes (or is pulled back to caine standing in a safe spot). You can only cast Locomotion on warjacks in Nemo's battlegroup, and you can only allocate more than 3 focus to warjacks in Nemo's battlegroup. I'm sorry, but Nemo1 does absolutely nothing for Thunderhead in Caine0's battlegroup besides cast Deceleration.
|
|
|
Post by lerderk on Jul 31, 2018 21:44:18 GMT
I was indeed blinded by the capabilities of the Theorymachine not taking into account how much points I was spending on the plan. There is a Scenario one should never ever forget when list building.
|
|
Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
|
Post by Juris on Jul 31, 2018 22:05:07 GMT
I was indeed blinded by the capabilities of the Theorymachine not taking into account how much points I was spending on the plan. There is a Scenario one should never ever forget when list building. It's okay, it did sound very sweet. =)
|
|
snoozer
Junior Strategist
Posts: 467
|
Post by snoozer on Aug 1, 2018 7:07:55 GMT
I think the real Caine0 + Thunderhead combo is with Nemo1. He gets one less inch thread (3" locomotion), but with FFE and 4 Focus TH can Attack or pulse fully boosted, then buy 2 and boost both damage (auto hitting if the boosted to hit or pulse hit before). I think alternatively any movement shenanigans with TH are stronger to pull him back after shooting to prevent enemies getting to TH. And the cool thing about Caine is, he can upkeep FFE and still shoot around his Jack still contributes (or is pulled back to caine standing in a safe spot). You can only cast Locomotion on warjacks in Nemo's battlegroup, and you can only allocate more than 3 focus to warjacks in Nemo's battlegroup. I'm sorry, but Nemo1 does absolutely nothing for Thunderhead in Caine0's battlegroup besides cast Deceleration. That is an missunderstanding. Why would you ever put TH into caines Bg? There is no reason to do so, you just have caine to cast FFE and then go his way and upkeep that. TH would be in Nemos Bg and nowhere else
|
|
|
Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Aug 1, 2018 8:15:40 GMT
I wonder how a Centurion with Caine0 in a Haley 2 list would fare. You can have Arlan Empower the Centurion, and Haley Temporal Accelerate it, it can then charge something it cannot one round, do a bit of damage and put up polarity field. Caine0 can then Spirit Door it back, and because of Polarity it now cannot be charged by the thing it attacked.
|
|