|
Post by ziggyqubert on Jul 28, 2018 16:42:38 GMT
What do people think of conservator spam with locke, i.e. something like
War Room Army
Convergence of Cyriss - Lock Consevertor spam
Theme: Destruction Initiative 4 / 4 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Aurum Lucanum Athanor Locke - WJ: +29 - Corollary - PC: 6 (Battlegroup Points Used: 6) - Conservator - PC: 12 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12) - Conservator - PC: 12 (Battlegroup Points Used: 11) - Conservator - PC: 12 - Conservator - PC: 12 - Conservator - PC: 12 - Conservator - PC: 12 - Conservator - PC: 12 - Diffuser - PC: 6
Algorithmic Dispersion Optifex - PC: 2 Algorithmic Dispersion Optifex - PC: 2 Attunement Servitors - 3 Attunement Servitors: 0 Elimination Servitors - 3 Elimination Servitors: 0 Reflex Servitors - 3 Reflex Servitors: 0 Elimination Servitors - 3 Elimination Servitors: 0
Optifex Directive - Leader & 2 Grunts: 4
THEME: Destruction Initiative
Seams like lock does a lot for them, and with shield guards everywhere you can prity Mitch dictate where hand of vengence gets triggered.
|
|
bundeez
Junior Strategist
Posts: 325
|
Post by bundeez on Jul 28, 2018 19:13:15 GMT
Hmmmm-meh.. I don't get it. What is your thought behind it/matchup intent? Depends what you pair it with of course, but I think it is too 1 dimentional. Very few guns to clear charge lanes and prog Road to War with. I guess it's great against a Fyanna Neraph spam list :'D Maybe Lucant runs that list better? Same damage buff, but more usable and a way better feat. If you really want to spam away I would squeeze in 1 more Conservator to almost reach the Cryx level of ridiculousness
|
|
|
Post by ziggyqubert on Jul 28, 2018 20:49:26 GMT
Well getting pow 19 with percision strike is good, also getting 14" (occasionally 16") charges is great, so it has high damage potential, and accuracy every turn (with induction).
Thinking along the lines of Slayer spam but with a higher base arm 20 all the time instead of 19vs melee and 21 vs range, and better utility as you have shield guards all over the place to manage range, induction so you can fully use each Jack every turn and magic weapons / repair on demand, you lose 3 Jack's compared to cryx, but I think overall it's comparable.
You could get one more Jack by dropping the defused, ado and optifix and you get one more free set of servitors, but I'm not sure if that is better, as you are then relying on the feat for magic weapons and servitors for repair
I think lucant or symthearon could run this type of list as well, but they lose out on the threat ranges and the damage output that locke brings with jackhammer.
I'll probably put it on the table this week and see how it plays
|
|
bundeez
Junior Strategist
Posts: 325
|
Post by bundeez on Jul 29, 2018 11:51:12 GMT
All valid points and I'll definately like to read a resume of your game once you try it out But let me try to counter argue for a second: Yes precision strike is sometimes good (when they don't have mechanics in their Warmachine list), but if you don't have Griveous Wounds or play against Hordes, it doesn't make any difference. And in my mind/list pair thoughts she is the Hordes drop. What if you don't get Hand of Vengeance on the important Jack? I have many times been in that situation, since games often play out this way: Your opponent has a unit or 2 for jamming or with guns and use 2-3 turns to slowly kill all the Servitors. Then late game when your solos are dead and their units are gone you clash in the middle with a P+S 15 (17 with Redline) heavy against their P+S 19 Mauler or 19 Juggernaut or whatever. Now obviously meta, playstyle etc. plays a big part of this but let us know how it goes, it's always refreshing with new list ideas out there
|
|
|
Post by Viv Savage on Jul 29, 2018 23:34:38 GMT
The Conservator definitely seems like a great choice with Locke. Loves the feat, the extra point of defence over an inverter is huge! Also, native pathfinder is sweet for road to war and hand of vengeance can allow them to activate effectively without engine of destruction, meaning you can better hot swap redline or do some nice jackhammers. As others have said though, maybe relying on triggering hand of vengeance for hitting power isn't great? So far I've played 3 inverters, a cipher, 2 conservators and a diffuser and it feels good, though I'm going to try swapping an inverter for a conservator to free up some points for more support.
I suppose it boils down to what you're wanting the list to do as part of your pairing. Would be interested to hear how you find your list if you give it a try!
|
|
|
Post by ziggyqubert on Aug 2, 2018 13:58:41 GMT
So I played one game with this list last knight and it performed well (I think), I played into Goreshade 4 (using the CID rules) list was roughly as follows -
Goreshade 4 Silus Imperatius Arc node Dawnguard + soulless Dawnguard + soulless Desters Dester solo 3 Archinests Lyss healer
Other than forgetting that the Consercators had 2 bucklers for the first half of the game (i.e. playing them as ARM 18 instead of 20) they performed as well as could be expected into this. I feal this is a bad matchup for Locke as goreshades feat is really bad for the list. Basicly I started loosing on attrition but because of road to war and my threat ranges I was able to assinate goreshade, putting a conseveter into him top of turn 4 and another one into him top of 5 and killing him.
Procing Hand of vengence was an issue on a couple of turns - turn 4 I diden't have hand of vengence on the jack that attacked goreshade which ment I couldent kill him that turn, in hind sight I prouably could have shield guarded a shot from the desters (who were on the opposite side of the board) to get hand of vengence on more of my jacks.
Trigering Road to war was actualy easy in this matchup, as elimination servitors can easily hit flared dawnguard.
I feated directly after goreshade which ment I got a good feat turn (9+ tokens) which kept 2 jacks alive, imperitus needing 6's to means that he will actualy miss an attack or two.
Also Goreshades arcane vortex was fairly relevant as he was able to cancel a couple of jackhammers.
Overall I would say it was an effective list although I think I will play it a couple more times to get a good feel of how it performs in other situations.
|
|
bundeez
Junior Strategist
Posts: 325
|
Post by bundeez on Aug 3, 2018 11:33:59 GMT
Nice, thanks for sharing I'm not familiar with Goreshade4, why is his feat bad for Locke? But I can see why it is a bad matchup list-wise. With almost no guns 20 sentinels (I assume that is what he brought) can be very hard to deal with using a Jack brick list.
|
|
|
Post by ziggyqubert on Aug 3, 2018 18:07:57 GMT
Goreshad 4 feat is basicly enemy models become stationary if they kill a model withj a melee attack in his control range, and goreshade gets souls for friendly living models killed in his control, and they turn into focus on his turn. so killing a sentinal will make a jack stationary, makes jacks super sad into infentry
|
|
germanicus
Junior Strategist
No jokes round ear...
Posts: 358
|
Post by germanicus on Aug 27, 2018 10:36:25 GMT
Yeah, counter-feating was the best move in a difficult match-up, as G4's army is committed to slugging away. Also, as it's a dude-spam list, Jackhammer loses a fair bit of value (knowing it's available means Impy is playing coy and threatening assassination vectors until the table's thinned out substantially), though I've got to say, good job leveraging RoW. Still, well done for getting the kill-win.
I'm curious as to what the other lists would (whether theoretically or practically) be...
|
|
|
Post by ziggyqubert on Aug 29, 2018 15:37:25 GMT
Prouably going to try out this variant tonight, shamlesly stolen from the interwebs, but close enough that its really an iteration of the list I posted above, a bit more versitle in the heavy department, not as reliant on Hand of vengence, and people have ben having some success with it.
Theme: Destruction Initiative 5 / 5 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Aurum Lucanum Athanor Locke - WJ: +29 - Conservator - PC: 12 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12) - Conservator - PC: 12 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12) - Conservator - PC: 12 (Battlegroup Points Used: 5) - Conservator - PC: 12 - Conservator - PC: 12 - Inverter - PC: 15 - Inverter - PC: 15 - Corollary - PC: 6 - Diffuser - PC: 6
Algorithmic Dispersion Optifex - PC: 2 Accretion Servitors - 3 Accretion Servitors: 0 Elimination Servitors - 3 Elimination Servitors: 0 Elimination Servitors - 3 Elimination Servitors: 0 Attunement Servitors - 3 Attunement Servitors: 0 Reflex Servitors - 3 Reflex Servitors: 0
No Optifex Directive I think is only worrying into cryx, its having only one ADO that might be the issue with the list, we shall see though
|
|
|
Post by ziggyqubert on Aug 30, 2018 13:23:11 GMT
Theme: Destruction Initiative 5 / 5 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army Aurum Lucanum Athanor Locke - WJ: +29 - Conservator - PC: 12 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12) - Conservator - PC: 12 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12) - Conservator - PC: 12 (Battlegroup Points Used: 5) - Conservator - PC: 12 - Conservator - PC: 12 - Inverter - PC: 15 - Inverter - PC: 15 - Corollary - PC: 6 - Diffuser - PC: 6 Algorithmic Dispersion Optifex - PC: 2 Accretion Servitors - 3 Accretion Servitors: 0 Elimination Servitors - 3 Elimination Servitors: 0 Elimination Servitors - 3 Elimination Servitors: 0 Attunement Servitors - 3 Attunement Servitors: 0 Reflex Servitors - 3 Reflex Servitors: 0 So I definatly like this list better, dident really miss the Optifex Directive, the scenario we played had no circle zones but I've found they are never in a position to score a circle zone anyway, adding in the Inverters added a bunch of flexibility to the list, spicificly for the 2" melee and the native STR without the need to trigger Hand of vengence. The additional set of servitors that you get can be the repair servitors to replace some of the functionality of the Optifex Directive, its the magic weapons that are really missing, but they are only sometimes needed and Locks feat can help with that.
|
|
bundeez
Junior Strategist
Posts: 325
|
Post by bundeez on Aug 30, 2018 14:08:00 GMT
Nice I like the new list better as well. Although I think the Inverter is mediocre. Had a bunch of games with Locke where they didn't pull their weight. Knockdown is less useful when you are already MAT 9. SPD 4 no pathfinder is a pain, even with Road to War. 2 times they lost their left arm which is devestating.. Maybe 1 set of free repair bots is a good idea. Although I play with the Prime Axiom so can make them on the fly. I do put redline on the Prime Axiom all the time, maybe the Inverter needs it sometimes as well. Juggling is just a pain with her imo. She wants to Engine of Destruction and cast 5 Jackhammers every turn pretty much I do agree about the Optifex Directive. Never use them anymore for the reasons you stated. Just not worth it. Such a shame ThemeMachine dictates that much of list creation... Don't you miss guns in the list?
|
|
|
Post by ziggyqubert on Aug 30, 2018 14:39:10 GMT
Nice I like the new list better as well. Although I think the Inverter is mediocre. Had a bunch of games with Locke where they didn't pull their weight. Knockdown is less useful when you are already MAT 9. SPD 4 no pathfinder is a pain, even with Road to War. 2 times they lost their left arm which is devestating.. Maybe 1 set of free repair bots is a good idea. Although I play with the Prime Axiom so can make them on the fly. I do put redline on the Prime Axiom all the time, maybe the Inverter needs it sometimes as well. Juggling is just a pain with her imo. She wants to Engine of Destruction and cast 5 Jackhammers every turn pretty much I do agree about the Optifex Directive. Never use them anymore for the reasons you stated. Just not worth it. Such a shame ThemeMachine dictates that much of list creation... Don't you miss guns in the list? Between the Diffuser and the Elimination Servitors the list has plenty of guns, Sentry goes on the Diffuser so you can get two Beacon shots if necessary, and with the attunment servitors you can usualy get one of the elimination servitors to kill something and trigger road to war. Redline goes on one of the Inverters, and between readline, beacon, and Road to wat they usualy have very little issue geting where they need to go - they have the same threat range as a Conservator (2" Melee vs spd 5). The repair bots are needed exactly for the reason you mention (fixing an arm). With this list I find myself only casting engine of once or twice a game, the conservitors being MAT 7 the majority of the time, with the addition of knockdown and attunment servitors means that you often dont need it, and are better off just casting more jackhammers. As you are running lock with a prime axium I can agree that it wants readline and you most likely dont want inverters, possibly lean twords Ciphers or something else. In this list the goal is to spam heavies which means you need to go for budget heavies, inverters are a good utility melee jack that while not realy cheap enough to qualify as budget, seam to be worth the extra points
|
|