boozy
Junior Strategist
Posts: 429
|
Post by boozy on Aug 3, 2018 16:03:05 GMT
RNG 3 is already unprecedented, and coupled with Thresher is a fresh tool for infantry hate.
Although there's plenty of that already. The AoE fire gun is pretty wild too
If this comes out of CID mostly intact, it's bonkers good. We will likely have the best two battle engines in the game.
|
|
|
Post by Charistoph on Aug 3, 2018 16:17:07 GMT
Which makes me laugh when some people were talking about the Farrow Meat Thresher being Skorne's first Battle Engine in Mk 2...
|
|
gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
|
Post by gordo on Aug 8, 2018 14:15:01 GMT
Looks like they ended this early after only 2 weeks. There were a lot of Battle reports, though most were from the same 4-5 users.
Seemed like the basic concerns were: 1. No Pathfinder makes it too difficult for it to ever contribute. 2. Arm 19 + 30 boxes + huge base makes it too difficult to stay alive in its frontline role. 3. It's got too many good abilities for its point cost. 4. Models that it brings back will immediately get their Vengeance attacks. 5. Gun is almost never used.
1. Pathfinder I think they will probably stick with their week 2 solution of Spd5+Pathfinder instead of speed 6.
I think they will combine 2 & 3 into a single solution, giving it probably more boxes or Ghost Shield and boost the cost to 18, possibly remove either Thresher or Siege Weapon (people seemed REALLY upset about Siege Weapon for whatever reason... I think if you let this model get close to your colossal you made egregious tactical errors...). Ghost Shield creates interesting choice between offense, defense, and recursion, so I think that could be very interesting.
I think 4 they are okay with, as it's a pretty neat trick and gives it more synergy in Exalted.
I think 5 they MIGHT address by allowing it to boost gun with souls also, again creating even more interesting choices of what to use your souls for (recursion? Offense? Etc), but I suspect they will just boost the gun range to 12 and leave it alone if they want it to see more usage.
|
|
|
Post by macdaddy on Aug 8, 2018 16:29:38 GMT
I never saw how durability was an issue, the games where it died and was complained about were mostly into really hard hitting trollkin. 19 30 boxes with access to +2 arm from an animus (and technically from the agonizer) seems super reasonable for its cost and output.
As far as its abilities, my issue was mostly its raw damage output unsupported. It basically will kill any heavy or non garg huge base in the game every time it charges. With someone like rasheth, it will kill a garg trivially with buffs. I just find that a bit absurd for its cost and other abilities.
Based off reports I read, I think it could use a bump in cost to 18 or 19, and then bump the gun to allow it to boost with souls to make it more enticing.
|
|
gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
|
Post by gordo on Aug 8, 2018 18:09:27 GMT
I never saw how durability was an issue, the games where it died and was complained about were mostly into really hard hitting trollkin. 19 30 boxes with access to +2 arm from an animus (and technically from the agonizer) seems super reasonable for its cost and output. As far as its abilities, my issue was mostly its raw damage output unsupported. It basically will kill any heavy or non garg huge base in the game every time it charges. With someone like rasheth, it will kill a garg trivially with buffs. I just find that a bit absurd for its cost and other abilities. Based off reports I read, I think it could use a bump in cost to 18 or 19, and then bump the gun to allow it to boost with souls to make it more enticing. The chances of it killing heavies on a charge unbuffed with full souls: Crusader: 66.7% Indictor: 10.5% Ironclad: 84% Stormclad: 68.4% Centurion: 19.9% Juggernaut: 21.1% Devastator: 0% Slayer: 88% Dire Troll Mauler: 84% (43.2% under krielstone) Warpwolf Stalker: 68.5% Wold Guardian: 35.3% Scythean: 91% Titan Gladiator: 79.4% Titan Sentry: 21.1% So most heavies that aren't built for defense it should kill unbuffed. Depends what PP are aiming at, but I think that's part of their design goal for it. Huge base, giant sword, should be scary in melee if you can't find a way to prevent it, or unless you are meant to receive a charge. I expect part of their intention with it was to make it a non-infantry way to crack armor that still contributes to free points. While not really needed in MoW, I think in Exalted it was direly needed. I think to do what they want it to do (Frontline melee beat stick, recursion machine) it kind of needs to be a bit sturdier. But I think if they want it to do this as well as its other roles, it needs to also cost more. Or lose some other roles. Honestly I think they should tone down its anti infantry strengths, since neither MoW nor Exalted really need help with that. If Thresher was intended to be a way to let it generate its own souls by killing friendly dudes, then it should just be replaced with a way to do that on its own: Soul Sacrifice: Up to three friendly faction models with souls within this models command range may be destroyed at the beginning of your maintenance phase. Something like that. Dunno, you make a giant base guy whose primary function is to use his giant sword, you either better give him the comfortable threat range to get there first or make it so he can take a charge. Otherwise I doubt he will ever get to do what you want him to. Doing this without losing any of his abilities at 16 points though seems too much.
|
|
granor
Junior Strategist
Posts: 353
|
Post by granor on Aug 8, 2018 20:11:24 GMT
My issue with any point changes is that this is exactly 75 points
Ancestral Guardian [0(5)] Ancestral Guardian [0(5)] Hakaar the Destroyer [0(7)] Immortals (max) [15] - Extoller Advocate [4] Immortals (max) [15] - Extoller Advocate [4] Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5] Supreme Guardian [16] Supreme Guardian [16]
So if the SG costs more than 16 points you basically remove the ability to run 2 in exalted and I love the idea of the list being able to run 2.
edit: I guess you can drop the PGBH.
|
|
gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
|
Post by gordo on Aug 8, 2018 20:42:50 GMT
My issue with any point changes is that this is exactly 75 points Ancestral Guardian [0(5)] Ancestral Guardian [0(5)] Hakaar the Destroyer [0(7)] Immortals (max) [15] - Extoller Advocate [4] Immortals (max) [15] - Extoller Advocate [4] Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5] Supreme Guardian [16] Supreme Guardian [16] So if the SG costs more than 16 points you basically remove the ability to run 2 in exalted and I love the idea of the list being able to run 2. edit: I guess you can drop the PGBH. Just run one Supreme Guardian? That's all I would run. But I see your point. I also think you could maybe get away with just the one Ancestral Guardian if you place him well.
|
|
granor
Junior Strategist
Posts: 353
|
Post by granor on Aug 8, 2018 20:47:23 GMT
The AG is free so it will not help you pay for the second SG
|
|
gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
|
Post by gordo on Aug 8, 2018 20:54:56 GMT
The AG is free so it will not help you pay for the second SG Yes it will. You've got 70 points here contributing to freebies but you only need 60 to get max. So just make one of the Advocates a free choice after dropping an AG. 4 more points to play with, so if the SGs jump to 18 points or less you are safe.
|
|
granor
Junior Strategist
Posts: 353
|
Post by granor on Aug 8, 2018 21:00:46 GMT
Yea I am an idiot. Totally didn’t think about that
|
|
gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
|
Post by gordo on Aug 8, 2018 21:24:09 GMT
Yea I am an idiot. Totally didn’t think about that No worries. To be fair, running such a list with only one AG could be a bit tricky, but I suppose sacrifices would have to be made to run two of these giant statues? Dunno.
|
|
|
Post by illrede on Aug 9, 2018 16:09:29 GMT
Yea I am an idiot. Totally didn’t think about that No worries. To be fair, running such a list with only one AG could be a bit tricky, but I suppose sacrifices would have to be made to run two of these giant statues? Dunno. One AG on the table isn't a sacrifice, it's a point failure source lynchpin. Seriously, don't do that. You may get by on unfamiliarity, but once people know what they're dealing with it's an easy way to downgrade the Immortals incorporeal threat tool, if not disassemble your list. Keeping the ability to run a conventional Zaal1 list with two of these things is going to be an important goalline for that build being strengthened by the introduction of this model; nobody seemed to value boardwide anti-spell coverage as much as they ought to have in the CID; maybe there just weren't enough Cryx games. Having to run a weak Zaal1 list is just a way to run in place. (The problem I see with it is that it is clearly replacing warbeast contributions in the Exalted, and they said literally that. But it gets paid for out of infantry point. Exalted stops working if it can't get the infantry component to run well.)
|
|
granor
Junior Strategist
Posts: 353
|
Post by granor on Aug 21, 2018 22:05:32 GMT
real rules in warroom looks like it got 3 more damage boxes but everything else other than name changes are the same.
|
|
didder
Junior Strategist
Posts: 166
|
Post by didder on Aug 21, 2018 23:52:50 GMT
Recursion changed to during activation. Initially not the case, but it is once per activation recursion
|
|
skormedlover87
Junior Strategist
Desperately searching for days off to game...
Posts: 517
|
Post by skormedlover87 on Aug 22, 2018 0:17:05 GMT
So, is there a release date that we know about? I didn't think it would come out so soon. Because if this was for WTC... they're too late.
Edit: I'm also kinda excited, which honestly I wasn't when this was first announced.
|
|