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Post by Trollock on Mar 12, 2019 16:57:47 GMT
You talked to the stryker 1 player about the match up. What was his thoughts? Stack ARM high enough that Ravagers cant really kill things except on your feat turn? Storm striders arent super effective are they?
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Post by redcathal on Mar 13, 2019 10:21:33 GMT
I don't think his list was super great or teched for Tharn but this is the list he had and he thought his siege list would be worse. I'm not entirely sure as I think he kills more stuff but his stuff dies easier so its a crap shoot.
Electro leaps do some work but talking about it after we reckoned he should have had two storm striders rather than the colossal which atm is just too expensive.
I think stacking ARM is stryker1's general plan right? I'm wondering if he didnt feat too early though, don't think I could realistically have gotten too much that turn thinking about it. But yeah it's not good. Not enough attacks.
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Post by redcathal on Mar 21, 2019 13:43:40 GMT
So I picked up Kromac2 awhile back and I've been trying him out, last week I played a CID game against infernals that should be up on the cid site somewhere (my opponent was putting it up) and now brought him to club night and I end up against Magnus2 whom I've never played but understand his feat is supposedly a pain in the ass, lets find out.
My list
Kromac2, Stalker, Ghetorix, Riphorn, Shadowhorn, Una1, Storm Raptor, LotF, Black Clad Wayfarer x 2, Shifiting Stones
His List
Magnus2, Madelyn Corbeau, Freebooter, Mangler, Toro x 2, Renegade, Vanguard, Aiyana and Holt, Dannon Blythe and Bull, Eliminators x 2, Hutchuk, Alten Ashely, Eiryss2, Eilish Garrity
Scenario was Mirage and I won the roll and after some mulling it over decide to go first. He decided to take the side with a forest so that he could get past it early.
Terrain
In front of my deployment zone there is a trench and a hill, then a pond, a forest in the middle and a building beside my flag, a hill near his flag and a wall in his zone and then a forest in front of his deployment zone.
Deployment
My regular: Hero black clad, ghetorix, riphorn, stalker kromac, shadowhorn, other black clad, una, storm raptor
His regular: Dannon blyth and Bull, 2 x toro near his flag, his solos in the middle, his caster with the rest of the battlegroup, A+H and his gang of eliminators.
My AD: Lotf on the left and the shifting stones central
Circle Turn 1 Not a lot of guns so everything runs forward. Kromac puts vengeful on the raptor and charges. Una puts up guardian beast.
Mercs Turn 1 Most stuff runs forward. Alten does a bunch to the shadowhorn (i forget to hyper aggressive, don't think it would have mattered but still annoying). Eiryss does a couple of points to the Storm Raptor and a point to Kromac due to his spell being on it. Magnus casts escort, puts bullet dodger up on Eiryss and moves up cautiously.
Circle Turn 2 Ghetorix is in charge range of a toro if I land the hunters mark. So hero black clad goes and lands it. I will end up proccing a countercharge if I do though so I think about it and eventually get lotf to charge the toro and he kills alten ashely. I move the rest of my battle group into a triangle of stones behind the forest for next turn and feat with Kromac who drops a bunch of fury this turn to camp 2 with spiny growth up. The Shadowhorn goes to kill Eiryss and does. Ghetorix goes into the Toro and kill him. Storm Raptor moves up and pulses doing chip damage to the freebooter, mangler, renegade and kills 2 eliminators. The extra shots go into the freebooter who took the most damage but one gets shield guarded and the other doesn't do much. Lastly I run the other black clad to the flag that the storm raptor is blocking. Just in case.
Mercs Turn 2 My opponent used Corbeau to seduce the LotF to go hit the shadowhorn which of course he does and rolls boxcars for damage. Even with feat this cripples mind and spirit. Magnus then comes in and finishes it off with the armour piercing charge and feats camping four. He makes it so the bird can’t get into melee with him but his gun will still do work so this turn I’m really banking on the bird not to die and with vengeful up he really coudn’t load up a jack to do it but instead he gets the kiss of with Aiyana, holt does a bunch of damage, then the freebooter and mangler come in and I hold my retaliatory strike too late so its not really effective. By the end of that big bird is on 4 boxes at which point a charging combo-striking eliminator finishes it off Vanguard then kills lotf. Prey goes on Ghetorix and bull shoots him twice, pushing him into walking range of magnus…Toro then charges him but it’s no more than a tickle thanks to feat and spiny growth. Renegade blows up a shifting stone to make sure there’s nothing I can port, which also knocks down Kromac and the stalker. Hutchuk runs to just toe my zone so he scores 1-0.
Circle Turn 3 So not much I can do because of the feat so Kromac arcs a primal shock at Magnus that bounces before walking backwards and casting carnage. Other beasts shuffle around. I get a bit of the red mist here and Ghetorix goes for Magnus, warps strength cos I reckon I need the damage more than the to hit as it’s 5s with carnage and dice off 2 warping strength, and casts spiny growth to mitigate some of the free strike damage. I then get a free strike and a countercharge (doh) but Ghetorix is still fine. I think proceed to miss 3 of the 5 attacks. Doing something like 10 damage. That was bad. Loser Blackclad sprays at him (should have done that first) but doesn’t do anything. Hero Blackclad walks behind Hutchuk and sprays him to death rolling a crit knockdown for no tough and the boxcars needed to kill him. I score my zone and Ghetorix is contesting his so 1-1.
Looking at this now maybe it would have been better to play attrition, have Gheto try kill the toro while being able to contest 2 flags.
Mercs Turn 3 He loads up the toro and upkeeps. Magnus knocks Gheto down and eventually kills Ghetorix, although Toro is super beat up from spiny growth damage. Freebooter goes into Riphorn who hits him back. Riphorn takes minimal damage and does minimal. Mangler goes into Stalker and cranks damage roll leaving him on like 9 boxes after his charge. Renegade charge finishes him off. Vanguard runs into my zone. Eliminators kill loser blackclad. Hero blackclad gets preyed when Ghetorix died and survives 2 shots by bull. Corbeau goes on his flag. Score 3-1 to Mercs.
Circle Turn 4 So at this point I have Kromac, Una, the Riphorn, some stones and hero blackclad. Kromac goes and kills the freebooter and Riphorn kills the Toro (mistake). Hero blackcald charges Bull to get in contesting range of the flag. Hits and kills bull, gets to battle wizard a spray into Corbeau on the hill and kills her too! Game is going downhill but man that guy did work! Unfortunately I can’t get anything in to contest his zone so he scores 4-1 to mercs.
The mistake here is that I should have had the riphorn bulldoze the vanguard out and try to kill it instead of the Toro. Buys me an extra turn at least.
Mercs Turn 4 He just has to kill hero black clad and put a solo on that flag which he does easily with Magnus and Eilish respectively. He also had the option of trying to kill my objective so the game was pretty much up. 6-1 Mercs.
Victory to Mercs
After thoughts, that feat really is ball busting! I made a good few mistakes though and it doesn’t seem like an insurmountable obstacle especially if I had kept my stones/the bird that bit safer. Anyway thanks for reading!
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Post by Trollock on Mar 21, 2019 20:21:59 GMT
Thanks for the report!
How come you didnt bring a pot? I seem to remember you having one... With both Kromac and the LotF it has some corpsing to do, and after that it can always drag or puppet strings. Seems super mandatory here 😅
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Post by Dev Null on Mar 22, 2019 0:45:35 GMT
Is that a theme list? Seems like it could be Call except maybe for Una, who I can't remember about?
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Post by kjata on Mar 22, 2019 7:09:02 GMT
Thanks for the report! How come you didnt bring a pot? I seem to remember you having one... With both Kromac and the LotF it has some corpsing to do, and after that it can always drag or puppet strings. Seems super mandatory here 😅 Because the list has 100 points in beasts, so gets una, the wayfarers, and the Lord for free. Adding the pot involves cutting a heavy and a solo.
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Post by Trollock on Mar 22, 2019 12:44:38 GMT
Thanks for the report! How come you didnt bring a pot? I seem to remember you having one... With both Kromac and the LotF it has some corpsing to do, and after that it can always drag or puppet strings. Seems super mandatory here 😅 Because the list has 100 points in beasts, so gets una, the wayfarers, and the Lord for free. Adding the pot involves cutting a heavy and a solo. Yeah, i get that, but if that was the only concern then all CotW lists would be using 4 free things, but usually you say that 3 is enough to get some flexibility... But sure, you get 2 budget heavies or one quality heavy and the pot. Might not be as clear cut as i assumed...
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Post by redcathal on Mar 22, 2019 14:30:42 GMT
Yeah that's in Call, pot might be worth it may turn a heavy into a gorax and a pot next game but we shall see
And interesting point on the free stuff I tend to try a max them out and then try to look at what I would lose/gain based on not going for said free points. Another idea might be to drop Una and just put the raptor on Kromac, will keep working on it.
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Post by Trollock on Mar 22, 2019 18:47:18 GMT
Yeah that's in Call, pot might be worth it may turn a heavy into a gorax and a pot next game but we shall see And interesting point on the free stuff I tend to try a max them out and then try to look at what I would lose/gain based on not going for said free points. Another idea might be to drop Una and just put the raptor on Kromac, will keep working on it. Oh, right. Raptor should probably be on kromac to get the feat. Vengeful is similar to guardian beast so una is less awesome. It does eat in to the list quite a bit though. I had this version in my war room: War Room Army Circle Orboros - New Army Theme: Call of the Wild 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army Kromac, Champion of the Wurm - WB: +28 - Ghetorix - PC: 19 - Pureblood Warpwolf - PC: 17 - Storm Raptor - PC: 34 (Battlegroup Points Used: 28) - Warpwolf Stalker - PC: 17 - Gorax Rager - PC: 7 Blackclad Wayfarer - PC: 0 Blackclad Wayfarer - PC: 0 Lord of the Feast - PC: 0 Swamp Gobber Chef - PC: 1 Shifting Stones - Leader & 2 Grunts: 3 Boil Master & Spirit Cauldron - Boil Master & Spirit Cauldron: 5 THEME: Call of the Wild --- GENERATED : 03/22/2019 19:45:36 BUILD ID : 2071.19-02-05
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Post by redcathal on Mar 25, 2019 11:06:50 GMT
Back to Iona today, I was up against a Skarre pairing with both pSkarre and the Boat. I expected to see PSkarre but my opponent had yet to play the boat and wanted to try her out so that was the game. My list Iona, 2x Stalker, 2x max ravagers with chieftains, Bloodweavers, Boilmaster and spirit cauldron, Brighid and Caul, 2 x wolf rider champs, LotF, Ravager Shaman , Night Witch, Gobber Chef His List Skarre 3, Statyxis blood witch, kraken, Max Bloodgorgers with Jussika, Max Marauders, Max Harpoon guys, Min Cannon guys, Guidance girls (Blood seers?), Axiara, Gerlak and 2 misery cages Scenario was Invasion and I won the roll so chose to go first. TerrainBuilding in the middle, a hill on my side outside the right circle, a forest towards his side of that circle, a hill outside that zone on his side, a pond in front of his deployment zone, a trench on his side of the left zone and a pond on my side of the same zone. Normally I don't like buildings in the middle but this one hurt him a lot more than me as he has a lot more bodies DeploymentMy regular: My usual deployment on Iona with the shaman and the pot in the middle with a unit of ravagers a stalker and a WRC on each side His regular: Marauders, Gerlak, blood gorgers, axiara, the boat with the other two units around her, the kraken My AD: Lotf in front of the pot, B&C off to the right, Night Witch to the left Prey goes on kraken - with the goal of living the dream and having B&C one rounding a colossal Circle Turn 1Pot fills up LotF, Iona puts out upkeeps (sure foot on left ravager unit and phantasm on the right unit) and charges forward. Everyone else runs to stay out of threat where reasonable. Cryx Turn 1He can't reasonable stay out of my threat with everything so he advances in waves to try and make sure I don't get a crippling alpha. Circle Turn 2I upkeep sure foot but drop phantasm because those ravagers are going to be on jamming duty so they're getting shot anyway. I also ambus my blood weavers. So on one hand I want to fill Caul up with corpses, on the other I see a great place for LotF to land where I can get Jussika and Axiara. So I give him puppet strings instead. LotF then walks forward, blood reapers 3 bloodgorgers and leaves one alive with a double ones and birds into Jussika and he kills her, Axiara, another bloodgorger and a harpoon ogrun. Woo no no knockdown tough for the trolls (that's my thing ) and importantly no tactician for his army. My night witch goes and murders a marauder and killing sprees into another but misses a couple of 7s. The weavers go and kill a couple more. Both units of ravagers get a couple of charges but mostly run to position. B&C go stand at the back of the right circle on the off chance he doesn't contest. My left WRC goes and kills the misery cage with her javelin and repos away. Cryx Turn 2Losing tactician means he thinks a lot about this turn. He loads up the kraken who can just get range on Brighid if he goes wide around the forest. So the guidance ladies go hands that out. Skarre activates and feats for dash and guided fire. She blows up LotF with her cannon and does some work with her hand cannon on a ravager making him tough(?) I think. Kraken goes and misses his big gun at Brighid, scatters off her and does minimal damage to some ravagers and Caul. He gets 3 shots with his other gun. He misses twice and I shield guard the hit with Caul who doesn't take much from it. Cannon ogre shoots the stalker so he cant charge and one that was engaged toughs the ravager knckcing him down as he is out of the aura. On the other side the remaining blood gorgers and marauders miss a lot of I dodge around. I think he ends up killing one from the sure foot unit. The his last activation Gerlak goes into the blood weavers and misses his charge with a 5...sad times for Gerlak. He never put anything into the zone so I score 1-0 to circle Circle Turn 3I spend a while looking about how to kill the Kraken and start the process, loading up Caul with corpses, running the left side stalker to the central zone to keep him in control etc. I feat with Iona who charges and kills a blood gorger jamming a ravager. She then puts pursuit on skarre and sprints as far back as she can be while still having a feat relevant to the kraken. I start measuring Caul to the kraken and he's just out...i still put in some chip damage with Brighid and a WRC and begin to activate the ravagers before I realise why don't I just put them into skarre instead? So I do that getting 4 including the chief on her and she dies to the 4th charge. Victory to Circle!Thoughts, going first gave me a great advantage as well as taking out his key support early. I think if I don't get the assassination I'm still in a great position to go ahead on attrition and scenario. Think this match up is pretty good so long as its the kraken battlegroup as opposed to a swarm of stalkers. Thanks for reading!
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Post by redcathal on Mar 27, 2019 14:51:10 GMT
So after the last event where my circle mirror experiment didn't go great I wanted to try out Grayle again. My list
Grayle, Bloodshaman, Ghetorix, Stalker, 2x max ravagers with Chieftains, Bloodweavers, Boilmaster and spirit cauldron, Brighid and Caul, 2 x wolf rider champs, LotF, Ravager Shaman His listMorv2, Stalker, Stalker, Gorax, Ravagers with Chief, Bloodtrackers with Nuala, Wolf Riders, 2 x Wolf Rider Champ, Ravager Shaman, LotF Scenario was pit 2 and I won the roll so chose to go first TerrainLots of forest woo! (set up by a neutral who after seeing we were both playing tharn said we deserved each other) So big forest in the centre zone, a building beside my objective, a wall on his side on my rectangle, a forest on either side of his rectangle, a hill in front on my deployment zone and a pond in his. My regular: Grayle in the middle with the Ravager shaman and the croc pot, a unit of ravagers either side, Stalker on the left as there's some nice places to get prowl and Ghetorix on the right His regular: Wolf rider champ either side, Stalker either side, ravagers in the middle with shaman, Goat lady and her pet gorax just to the right of the ravagers, then the wolf riders My AD: LotF in front of the pot, Brighid and Caul towards his rectangle My prey goes of LotF, his goes on the right unit of ravagers Grayle Turn 1Pot fills up the LotF, Bloodshaman uses harmonious exaltation, Grayle puts storm rager up on LotF and Deathmarch on B&C. Everything else runs. Morvahna Turn 1Morv activates. Fog of war and carnivore goes up on the ravagers, he puts her behind the wall with the intention of keeping her there for the game. He can get a shot off from his WRC on my WRC so goes for it. With the reroll he leaves it on 2 boxes. Otherwise he positions out of threat. Grayle Turn 2I upkeep both spells. Decide not to ambush. With everything just out I resign myself to the fact that I'm gonna take a beating next turn, as chip damage against Morv isn't great. I try kill his WRC with a charge and roll triple ones and miss my shot. Boo! Now that she's stuck there (she was supposed to be my contesting piece) I decide to put Ghetorix in the zone (Mistake). He spiny growths. I jam with some ravagers and spread out. The pot fills up Caul. They position into a forest for def. Grayle puts down a windblast to be annoying for the blood trackers. My other WRC runs to his backfield. Morvahna Turn 2He upkeeps both spells. His WRC jumps into my girls back and kills her. His LotF goes for a shot on my chieftain and gets him Caul, Brighid and my stalker in his blood reaper. He boosts and misses on Brighid (out of reroll range), and my stalker and hits both my chieftain and Caul for very little damage. Vengeance for all! He uses his gorax to primal a stalker and charges Ghetorix (spiny growth and rapid healing both disappoint here) killing him with attacks left over for the objective which lives. He cleverly activates his wolf riders next who kill the two ravagers jamming all the blood trackers, my contesting ravager in the zone and leave the objective on one. Even with the reroll. However his blood trackers make up for it, killing the objective and mini-feating prey over to the ravagers in front of them. Leaving just the chieftain alive in the end. His other stalker just positioned slightly back. 2-0 to Morv Grayle Turn 3I do ambush this turn to both give me a good sacrifice target and to maybe do some work. I get vengeance on my B&C who kill LotF, my chieftain who fails to hit a blood tracker and on the other side I mostly use it for positioning but do hit his primalled stalker mostly because I can. We activate blood weavers put 2 charges into a wolf rider (fail to kill) and 3 into a stalker which I accidentally kill. I go with grayle and feat and he (eventaully) kills 2 blood trackers after missing a bunch. I use the feat to move to a position where I can get LotF into Morv. I give him divine inspiration and puppetmaster. He goes into Morv, his chieftain and his shaman. He kills the two tharn and leaves her on a couple of boxes and his beasts on 10 or so health between them? I then do the rest of my turn and do some attrition work all of which heals Morv... Really should have gone for that assassination last. By the end he has 2 blood trackers left (my chieftain went on a great overtake chain), 2 wolf riders and I think I only killed 3 more ravagers? In other mistakes I misplayed Grayle's feat because I was just moving stuff when I could rather than waiting for the best time to use it ie B&C killed two ravagers they were already in threat of (trying to get the quick work shot into the stalker with 5 boxes left but the ravager toughed) and if I hadn't have moved them already for no reason then I would have been able to move them out of the way for the stalker to finish it off. But lessons learned. Instead the stalker killed the objective and a ravager and sprinted back. I forget to activate my WRC but my opponent graciously allows me to put her in charge range of Morv. Score 2-2 Morv Turn 3So he is running out of time and goes through his turn, he kills a bunch more ravagers including the other units chieftain, my other chieftain however is ok chilling in the forest. Morv goes into kill LoTf herself and it takes a couple of attacks but she does it and heals her beasts to fully functional, she also feats back 3 wolf riders and 3 ravagers before repoing away from my WRC. The stalker kills Brighid and Caul with some boosted rolls. And that's him no one scores. Grayle Turn 4So I start looking at assassination since attrition is about to go bad for me and his gorax is on three having riled up for no reason, so I think just by killing the stalker easy Ill kill Morv no problem with Gallows or something. We discuss this and he though gorax was fury 4 so we take that back and he has a transfer target. However at this point I noticed I'm waaay up on clock (he has about 2 minutes) so decide that's a much better route to victory. I kill his jamming WRC with a ravager, kill his stalker and contesting ravager with my stalker. Shaman harmoniously exalts Grayle who Storm Ragers himself, kills something and sprints back to safety. WRC takes a pot shot at the Gorax while following Morvahna. 2/3 Bloodweavers amazingly hit the WRC but dont do a lot of damage unfortunately. I score 3-2 to Grayle. Morv Turn 4He starts by clearing the zone to level off the score and tries to work out what he needs to do next but doesnt have enough time so concedes. Victory to Grayle's Circle! ThoughtsThat LotF is still terrifying. Morv is still great at attrition. I am glad the clock decided to save me. Really shouldnt have lost Gheto the way I did. Thin I vastly overestimated his staying power after a couple of games with Kromac. Still a good lesson to learn. Thanks for reading!
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Post by Trollock on Mar 27, 2019 15:35:05 GMT
Didnt he try to dispell your upkeeps a lot? Sounds really annoying to take all that damage every turn. Guess it wouldnt have mattered here because of time, but in general, taking several d3 damage every turn seems really painful
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Post by redcathal on Mar 27, 2019 17:29:23 GMT
Didnt he try to dispell your upkeeps a lot? Sounds really annoying to take all that damage every turn. Guess it wouldnt have mattered here because of time, but in general, taking several d3 damage every turn seems really painful He thought about it a couple of times but was concerned about LotF getting to Morvahna initially and after that there was no upkeeps to strip really...
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Post by kjata on Mar 27, 2019 22:38:54 GMT
He couldn't heal on morv after lord hit her, he has grievous wounds.
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Post by redcathal on Mar 28, 2019 11:58:12 GMT
He couldn't heal on morv after lord hit her, he has grievous wounds. Dammit!
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