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Post by Gamingdevil on Jul 24, 2018 7:05:30 GMT
I do agree though about immunity to fire seemingly being more available. Is it? I can think of Crucible Guard, which is one faction and like you said, you have a second list. For the rest there's Assault Commandos, so lol, some models in Protectorate itself, and then a handful of models in other factions, mostly Trolls. This doesn't seem to be anything new though and it shouldn't devalue fire damage much.
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Post by gargs454 on Jul 24, 2018 16:46:24 GMT
Honestly I think the main thing that Protectorate "lacks" in comparison to other factions is a "Boogeyman" list. The list that is so dominant that everyone else has to be prepared for it. Of course, I am not a big fan of Boogeyman lists though, so I actually think this isn't, per se, bad. The upside to this though is that its pretty rare for other factions to specifically tech against Protectorate. Now its true that in preparing to tackle one of the Boogeyman lists they might also, inadvertently also be well prepared for a lot of Protectorate lists, but we have a deep enough stable that often enough, we'll at least be in an even footing setting.
Are there still models needing love? Of course. But I think we are still much better off than most of the factions in that regard. The main concern with Protectorate that I have noticed (and certainly I am anything but a great player) is that with Protectorate you really do have to think ahead and plan out you order of activations, etc. Heck, I even started writing "Choir first dumbass!" because I forgot to activate choir before the Jacks attacked so many times. Of course, the problem that arises there then is that you also have to carefully place your choir if you are needing them to activate first so that they can still be protected after the Jacks activate, etc. More than some factions I often see Protectorate lists as a bunch of parts moving in harmony, that will quickly grind to a halt with just a bit of a misstep.
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twity
Junior Strategist
Posts: 179
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Post by twity on Jul 24, 2018 17:04:30 GMT
This faction forum is so upbeat and positive. I am going to keep messing around with Protectorate just so I can stay here and discuss it with you guys.
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blakeh1
Junior Strategist
Posts: 181
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Post by blakeh1 on Jul 24, 2018 21:29:33 GMT
Honestly I think the main thing that Protectorate "lacks" in comparison to other factions is a "Boogeyman" list. The list that is so dominant that everyone else has to be prepared for it. Of course, I am not a big fan of Boogeyman lists though, so I actually think this isn't, per se, bad. The upside to this though is that its pretty rare for other factions to specifically tech against Protectorate. Now its true that in preparing to tackle one of the Boogeyman lists they might also, inadvertently also be well prepared for a lot of Protectorate lists, but we have a deep enough stable that often enough, we'll at least be in an even footing setting. Are there still models needing love? Of course. But I think we are still much better off than most of the factions in that regard. The main concern with Protectorate that I have noticed (and certainly I am anything but a great player) is that with Protectorate you really do have to think ahead and plan out you order of activations, etc. Heck, I even started writing "Choir first dumbass!" because I forgot to activate choir before the Jacks attacked so many times. Of course, the problem that arises there then is that you also have to carefully place your choir if you are needing them to activate first so that they can still be protected after the Jacks activate, etc. More than some factions I often see Protectorate lists as a bunch of parts moving in harmony, that will quickly grind to a halt with just a bit of a misstep. Teching for Protectorate boogeyman lists is like bringing stuff you need anyway against most other list pairings of other factions Some kind of anti-knockdown ( in case you face Kreoss 1 or 3 ). This is generally useful regardless of who you play against Some way to remove/be immune to continuous effects (fire). Maybe a little more specialized, but still helps out against corrosion and other factions fire based tech Some way to grant magic weapon (to counter the Choir) - You need this anyway in any list to handle Incorporeal (especially the gremlin swarm ) and other tech available to other factions RFP/anti-healing tech (to counter the likes of HR and Testament) which many are already bringing in case they face Cryx skew lists We do have a bit of an edge in the Blessed area and upkeep removal side of things in certain lists so many bonuses like Arcane Shield etc... are largely irrelevant.
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blakeh1
Junior Strategist
Posts: 181
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Post by blakeh1 on Jul 24, 2018 21:40:15 GMT
I do agree though about immunity to fire seemingly being more available. Is it? I can think of Crucible Guard, which is one faction and like you said, you have a second list. For the rest there's Assault Commandos, so lol, some models in Protectorate itself, and then a handful of models in other factions, mostly Trolls. This doesn't seem to be anything new though and it shouldn't devalue fire damage much. It depends Kallus 2 and Trolls with the UA make fire irrelevant for a good deal if not most of their army, not just a few models. Dwarves also have some fire immune models as well It's not a tons of stuff, but the creep is setting in
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Post by Gamingdevil on Jul 25, 2018 6:22:14 GMT
Kallus 2 and Trolls with the UA make fire irrelevant for a good deal if not most of their army, not just a few models. Dwarves also have some fire immune models as well It's not a tons of stuff, but the creep is setting in Kallus 2, and ranged Legion, also has trouble with fire immune stuff, so it's a double edged sword. If you mean the Stone Scribe Elder for trolls, it's only against the continuous effect and there's opportunity cost in not using +1 STR or even the Northkin Elder. Dwarves have the Tactical Arcanist Corps, yes, but I can't remember the last time I actually saw them on the table. There's still quite a few things that fire can play into, proven by how happy Khador is with their new Viktor.
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spideredd
Junior Strategist
Summer Gamer
Posts: 588
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Post by spideredd on Jul 25, 2018 15:55:17 GMT
I've largely dropped my fire effect lists, partly because I did so much of that throughout MKII, but also because of how much time it takes to go through the all the fire checks. I can set fire to everything on the table, My stuff, your stuff, objectives and the table itself, so it does tend to take a while.
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blakeh1
Junior Strategist
Posts: 181
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Post by blakeh1 on Jul 26, 2018 19:48:26 GMT
I will say I have alot of clock issues when running Cleansers in my Feora 1 Guardians them list. Between resolving all those spray attacks plus any fire checks next turn it can eat up a noticeable chunk of time
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demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on Jul 27, 2018 0:06:45 GMT
to the post above, I think they should make it so that "checks" are done on your opponent's clock, not your own. It punishes you for playing a list the way it's suppose to be played x.x
To the first poster!!!!
as of recent, menoth has been on a steep incline and can actually play the way they are meant to be played. The more popular casters around the board all absolutely hate playing into Menoth anymore, as we deny all of their janky spells and eliminate all those nasty upkeeps they depend on. It's the more straight forward casters with powerful feats that make us weep anymore. Ret is only hard into us because they have good average stat boards. Other than that we can walk over them as well. Trolls, skorne, khador, maybe convergance, those are about the only factions whose most popular casters wouldn't get rocked by a Menoth denial list.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Jul 27, 2018 6:23:03 GMT
to the post above, I think they should make it so that "checks" are done on your opponent's clock, not your own. It punishes you for playing a list the way it's suppose to be played x.x Err, continuous effects are resolved in the Maintenance phase, hence on the clock of the person controlling the affected models. It's the person that controls the affected models that rolls the dice to see if the continuous effects expire, hence it's on their clock. Continuous effects don't "belong" to anyone in particular, they're just there, so your opponent does not pass the clock to you for these, not for the expiration roll, nor the damage.
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demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on Jul 27, 2018 6:50:09 GMT
good x.O; flame lists are still tourny viable then ^-^
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Post by cgdeth on Jul 27, 2018 10:23:18 GMT
I wonder how people would feel about rolling the two dice for damage and a third dice for the fire check at the same time?
Kind of like rolling for damage and collum or spiral at the same time.
It would speed it up.
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Hashmal
Junior Strategist
Posts: 557
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Post by Hashmal on Jul 27, 2018 10:32:47 GMT
The way it is played round these parts is that the owning player rolls to see if the continuous effect expires and then passes clock for the opponent to roll damage. I just keep two dice queued up so the second his hit the table and I confirm it's up, so do mine.
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moquan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 193
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Post by moquan on Jul 27, 2018 14:55:48 GMT
The way it is played round these parts is that the owning player rolls to see if the continuous effect expires and then passes clock for the opponent to roll damage. I just keep two dice queued up so the second his hit the table and I confirm it's up, so do mine. Also how we do it, but you can just roll the damage die at the same time as your opponent rolls the check of course. No need to switch the clock then.
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