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Post by cygnarstronk on Jul 16, 2018 21:24:20 GMT
Hi all! I've recently acquired steelhead halbies, nyss hunters and forge guard from a friend at a very cheap price. So, of course I want to use them. I think the best caster for them is Siege2 in SD and GD, followed by Haley3 in GD and in most HM lists. Why HM? Because i'm pretty sure that I don't need all 3 free cards from that theme, and having an infantry unit like the nyss hunters or the steelheads can be a great boon to the army. Yeah, I have to sacrifice A&H, but honestly? Outside of really dedicated ranged lists, I don't think they are THAT valuable. I mean yeah, magical weapons on a stick is solid but with siege and haley i usually have some magic damage, in HM i'll probably have arlan so you know... and the +2 damage at Rat 7 is extremely unrealiable unless I target DEF 10-11, even DEF 12 starts becoming problematic if I have to plan my turn on the kiss landing. I mean, if I have to crack armor some steelhead halbies+fury under siege2 are going to do A LOT more damage compared to the kiss. Just sending 5 halbies in (super easy thanks to feat and reach, 14 inches of threat) with fury up and I'm looking at 5 attacks each averaging 24.5 damage. That's a lot of pain and if needed I could probably fit in more than 5 troopers. Point of note is that murdoch makes them beasts to remove at range, and any kind of charge still has to deal with set defense. Damn, those halbies are worth their coins. The forgeguard I believe it's usable only with siege2. The Threat Extension from the feat is basically needed or they are really too slow, but hit like trucks loaded with bricks. Furied Forgeguards are going to remove any kind of heavy targets, be they multiwound infantry/cavalry or heavy jacks and beasts. They start to cost a bit much. Nyss Hunters can take a flank on their own and be independent thanks to murdoch. For one turn they become nearly unkillable at range, they have 2 attacks each on the charge to make up for their high point cost (so they can deal with infantry swarms, at least a bit) and still, SPD7+1 inch reach+fury makes them hit really, really hard. Mat 6 sucks, and they cost so much that you can forget the free 3rd card from the theme. What do you think about merc units, where do you think they fit in good? EDIT: I'm probably going to try this list next time | Cygnar Army - 75 / 75 points
[Theme] Gravediggers
(Brisbane 2) Colonel Markus "Siege" Brisbane [+28] |
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[/b] [*]Triumph [18][/ul]Captain Maxwell Finn [6]Commander Anson Hitch [4]Patrol Dog [2]Ragman [4]Trench Buster [0(5)]Trench Buster [0(5)]Steelhead Halberdiers ( max) [11][/b] [/ul]Trencher Commandos (max) [15][/b] [*]Trencher Commando Scattergunner (2) [4][/ul]Trencher Express Team [0(5)]Trencher Infantry (max) [16][/b] [/ul][/td][/tr][/tbody][/table][/td][/tr][/tbody][/table] |
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Post by jagius021 on Jul 17, 2018 13:51:46 GMT
I feel like gravediggers does pretty well with it's existing infantry, but forgeguard could see some play there as you make some good points.
I find that heavy metal can use some of the Mercs a bit better as their infantry choices are kinda meh. Haley 1 in hm seems like she could make the nyss really shine. Maddox would help the halbs get tough and a somewhat respectable armor.
The biggest problem I can see is you need your caster to fix problems like Pathfinder and threat extension, so you pretty much havvto have Murdoch.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jul 17, 2018 14:04:58 GMT
If only Heavy Metal let us take a Merc solo...
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xadmar
Junior Strategist
Posts: 173 
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Post by xadmar on Jul 17, 2018 14:42:26 GMT
I made up a crazy HM list with Maddox running the Forge guard and the Siege Crawler. Never put it on the table but it was fun to think about.
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gmonkey
Junior Strategist
I, for one, welcome our Infernal Overlords.
Posts: 313
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Post by gmonkey on Jul 17, 2018 15:51:41 GMT
It would be interesting if Cygnar got a new theme which excluded squire and junior, but allowed as many mercs as you wanted. It would certainly mix up list-building.
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cain
Junior Strategist
Posts: 243
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Post by cain on Jul 17, 2018 17:50:39 GMT
I have most of the mercs units from mrk.2. In mrk.3 I think the answer to your question is: do you need Ayiana and Holt so take them. If not, any other merc unit is not competitive.
Merc units got a big nerf in mrk.3 when the «only work on friendly faction» rule arrived. Murdouch can only be one place and makes the unit too expensive unless its something you really really need.
Another bigger problem in thememachine, is that merc infantry take up points from your pool to generate free solos. Makes the units even more expensive.
List building with mercs has never been so boring.
In the solo departement I usually take ragman. In some list piper is an option. For example in a storm division list with lots of cavalry/infantry. Never seems to use any other merc solos.
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Post by jagius021 on Jul 17, 2018 18:47:25 GMT
It has been disappointing to see that we don't have a theme that allows for unlimited Mercs, given cygnars love for them in the fluff. Skorne gets one, why can't we?
I'd love to see a cygnar theme that allows a unit of trollbloods as well, that would be neat.
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xadmar
Junior Strategist
Posts: 173
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Post by xadmar on Jul 17, 2018 18:53:54 GMT
I have most of the mercs units from mrk.2. In mrk.3 I think the answer to your question is: do you need Ayiana and Holt so take them. If not, any other merc unit is not competitive. Merc units got a big nerf in mrk.3 when the «only work on friendly faction» rule arrived. Murdouch can only be one place and makes the unit too expensive unless its something you really really need. Another bigger problem in thememachine, is that merc infantry take up points from your pool to generate free solos. Makes the units even more expensive. List building with mercs has never been so boring. In the solo departement I usually take ragman. In some list piper is an option. For example in a storm division list with lots of cavalry/infantry. Never seems to use any other merc solos. From what I have seen Alexia is another unit that will occasionally show up. Mostly in GD with Haley 3. |
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cain
Junior Strategist
Posts: 243
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Post by cain on Jul 17, 2018 19:48:02 GMT
I have most of the mercs units from mrk.2. In mrk.3 I think the answer to your question is: do you need Ayiana and Holt so take them. If not, any other merc unit is not competitive. Merc units got a big nerf in mrk.3 when the «only work on friendly faction» rule arrived. Murdouch can only be one place and makes the unit too expensive unless its something you really really need. Another bigger problem in thememachine, is that merc infantry take up points from your pool to generate free solos. Makes the units even more expensive. List building with mercs has never been so boring. In the solo departement I usually take ragman. In some list piper is an option. For example in a storm division list with lots of cavalry/infantry. Never seems to use any other merc solos. From what I have seen Alexia is another unit that will occasionally show up. Mostly in GD with Haley 3. Ahh, Yes agree. Forgot her. Palexia is good in haley3. |
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Post by cygnarstronk on Jul 18, 2018 9:18:12 GMT
I disagree on mercs being useless. I mean, halbies with dig in minifeat+fury can be well worth those 15 points, as long as you don't lose the free solo. With only the halbies and ragman as my mercs I can still get 3 free solos and have a lot of bodies, much more than with only trenchers who all have high point costs and no reach.
Same with the nyss hunters, they are a bit overcosted to start with but murdoch fixes them in so many ways. Add fury and they are really strong.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jul 18, 2018 10:51:36 GMT
I disagree on mercs being useless. I mean, halbies with dig in minifeat+fury can be well worth those 15 points, as long as you don't lose the free solo. With only the halbies and ragman as my mercs I can still get 3 free solos and have a lot of bodies, much more than with only trenchers who all have high point costs and no reach. Same with the nyss hunters, they are a bit overcosted to start with but murdoch fixes them in so many ways. Add fury and they are really strong. I don't deny that Halberdiers with Murdoch can be a good package, but for 1 point more you can get a full unit of Trencher Infantry. With Brutal Charge they match the P&S of the Halbs, they take Fury just as well, have guns, AD, Assault, Tough, Rise and Dig In every turn if they want.
Murdoch plus Halbs is 11 bodies for 15 points, Trenchers are 10 bodies for 16 points, so you don't get that many more bodies.
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Post by cygnarstronk on Jul 18, 2018 11:11:44 GMT
I disagree on mercs being useless. I mean, halbies with dig in minifeat+fury can be well worth those 15 points, as long as you don't lose the free solo. With only the halbies and ragman as my mercs I can still get 3 free solos and have a lot of bodies, much more than with only trenchers who all have high point costs and no reach. Same with the nyss hunters, they are a bit overcosted to start with but murdoch fixes them in so many ways. Add fury and they are really strong. I don't deny that Halberdiers with Murdoch can be a good package, but for 1 point more you can get a full unit of Trencher Infantry. With Brutal Charge they match the P&S of the Halbs, they take Fury just as well, have guns, AD, Assault, Tough, Rise and Dig In every turn if they want.
Murdoch plus Halbs is 11 bodies for 15 points, Trenchers are 10 bodies for 16 points, so you don't get that many more bodies.
But they lose CMA and reach, those are pretty big advantages IMHO, especially if you use them against heavy targets. |
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jul 18, 2018 11:21:25 GMT
I don't deny that Halberdiers with Murdoch can be a good package, but for 1 point more you can get a full unit of Trencher Infantry. With Brutal Charge they match the P&S of the Halbs, they take Fury just as well, have guns, AD, Assault, Tough, Rise and Dig In every turn if they want.
Murdoch plus Halbs is 11 bodies for 15 points, Trenchers are 10 bodies for 16 points, so you don't get that many more bodies.
But they lose CMA and reach, those are pretty big advantages IMHO, especially if you use them against heavy targets. The 2" melee is good I will admit, but if you are charging P&S 14s you don't need CMA to break armour, so are better off doing individual attacks |
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xadmar
Junior Strategist
Posts: 173
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Post by xadmar on Jul 18, 2018 13:52:53 GMT
And trenchers technically have a 16 inch reach with their guns.  *Round of fire* What unit of Steelheads!  |
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Post by cygnarstronk on Jul 18, 2018 15:58:58 GMT
And trenchers technically have a 16 inch reach with their guns. *Round of fire* What unit of Steelheads! If you time well the minifeat, they are Def 17 against shooting and blast immunity. Good luck shooting them down. Also, set defense is huge. EDIT: also, I get that maybe trenchers are all around better at a slightly higher price, but I really wanna try these mercs out. Also, I don't really like trencher infantry without UA and that makes their point cost stellar |
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*Round of fire* What unit of Steelheads! 