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Post by Trollock on Jun 25, 2018 13:12:14 GMT
So, after having played a grand total of 1 games with Circle, I am now qualified to make assumptions that you veteran guys arent doing it right and that i have cracked the code to unlocking a largely unused theme, right?  Seriously though. I have been tinkering a bit with War Room just poking about checking what types of lists are possible. I claim to be fairly unbiased, since i have literally no idea how Circle usually plays, so im trying lots of crazy stuff out (maybe ill tell you about my Kaya 2 Bones list some time... ). I checked out Secret Masters and quickly discovered that the best piece in there is probably the Fulcrum, and i can play that in Bones if i want. I looked for things in the faction that supports Druids, and found that... Basically nothing supports Druids. One major exception is the Woldwrath. He seems to be supporting druids on paper at least. So i set out looking for a caster that can play a Woldwrath reasonably well, and preferably do something fro druids too while at it. The only caster i knew liked the Woldwrath was Baldur 2, but he seemed to do almost nothing for the Druids. His younger self, Baldur 1 though caught my eye. He has a spell that buffs ARM and STR for your big guy, and giving him free charges to boot. -1 SPD is bad, so i guess you will prefer to not apply it first turn. Interestingly too, he does a bit for the Druids. Sure Foot is very good for fragile models that rely on not being directly hit. Placing a forest that can allow them to trigger Prowl is also nice. The feat keeps enemies away, and plays in to the whole control thing Druids have going for them. Then came the pain... Building an army that works on the table. It turns out that an army that consists only of really wimpy models like Druids that can not hit hard and can not take a punch look AWFUL through my Troll-colored lenses. Getting 60+ points of Blackclads was also hard because i did not really want very many of them. Initially i wanted to play double Druids but in the end i didnt like how the points worked out, so i went with a Fulcrum instead. That thing seems pretty legit even unsupported, though i feat it might be too starved for fury to be great in this list build. I topped off with a Woldwatcher for a little bit of staying power (and a super corner case way to place a forest for Baldur to jump to for a crazy assassination) and some fury generation, and some solos. The selection of free solos seem super bad here tbh, though the sprays seem very legit if they are boosted and with +1 magic ability. conflictchamber.com/#c8201b_-0M4mjEcng4g4g45g5gfFgo575ci7Circle Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Secret Masters [Baldur 1] Baldur the Stonecleaver [+31] - Woldwatcher [8] - Woldwrath [37] Blackclad Stoneshaper [3] Blackclad Stoneshaper [3] Blackclad Stoneshaper [3] Blackclad Wayfarer [0(4)] Blackclad Wayfarer [0(4)] Swamp Gobber Chef [1] Druid Mist Riders (max) [20] Druids of Orboros [12] - Druid of Orboros Overseer [0(4)] Celestial Fulcrum [19] Is this the next big thing in WMH? Definitely for sure! I have solved the Secret Masters list building once and for all, right? Seriously though, This might have a little bit of legs perhaps. It has trouble dealing with lots and lots of high ARM, but the Wrath with P+S 23 and a free charge can kill most things out there, and if you can keep the control going you might be able to pick off the threats one at a time. High DEF infantry should be manageable, and high volume of low stat infantry too. High ARM infantry though seems like a pretty bad match up. Will i be testing this out? Nope! Way too little actual play time to do that. Ill stick to Krueger 2 Bones for now. In between my rare games ill have to occupy my mind with crap like this, and some painting. I actually did some painting yesterday. Ill probably start a thread about that when i get some finished models to show off  /T |
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Post by streetpizza on Jun 25, 2018 13:30:06 GMT
Secret masters is bad and you should feel bad for even trying  More seriously look at the anti synergy you've got going on here. You've only got one beater in the wrath and the whole point of druids is to protect on the approach with clouds. Too bad the wrath and fulcrum can't actually hide behind clouds. This list can potentially clear infantry for days but when you do you'll be trading at a big disadvantage because all of the druids are super expensive compared to other units. You also haven't used the sac pawn theme benefit which is arguably the only reason you'd ever want to play this in SM instead of Bones. If I were to tweak this to make it work I'd probably go this route conflictchamber.com/#c8201b_-0M4mjFjFjFg4g4g45g5gbMgo575c2NCircle Army - 74 / 75 points [Theme] Secret Masters [Baldur 1] Baldur the Stonecleaver [+31] - Woldwarden [14] - Woldwarden [14] - Woldwarden [14] Blackclad Stoneshaper [3] Blackclad Stoneshaper [3] Blackclad Stoneshaper [3] Blackclad Wayfarer [0(4)] Blackclad Wayfarer [0(4)] Brun Cragback [16] Druid Mist Riders (max) [20] Druids of Orboros [12] - Druid of Orboros Overseer [4] Swamp Gobbers Bellows Crew [2] You can sack pawn to brun when required then send the hit to lug for a big health pool. The wardens will wreck face in melee at P+S20 and everything can use the cloud wall to good effect to get up field. Lots of heavy hitters and good infantry clearing to really make the list pop. Consider dropping the gobbers to change a warden to a guardian for a bit of shield guard high arm and P+S 22 action ... so spicy! Oh god ... i'm talking myself into trying a SM list aren't I? Yes I am. Damn you Trollock. New iteration: conflictchamber.com/#c8201b_-0M4mjGjFjFg4g45g5gbMgo575c5fCircle Army - 74 / 75 points [Theme] Secret Masters [Baldur 1] Baldur the Stonecleaver [+31] - Wold Guardian [16] - Woldwarden [14] - Woldwarden [14] Blackclad Stoneshaper [3] Blackclad Stoneshaper [3] Blackclad Wayfarer [0(4)] Blackclad Wayfarer [0(4)] Brun Cragback [16] Druid Mist Riders (max) [20] Druids of Orboros [12] - Druid of Orboros Overseer [4] Shifting Stones [3] |
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Post by Trollock on Jun 25, 2018 19:56:21 GMT
You think using druids as a cloud wall is really a good idea? 16 points for a unit that does no work seems expensive... My idea was that they either plink stuff with spells or push stuff away with spells. Either way they wont be clouding much...
The only way they can trade with other stuff is by not being attacked... Ever... But this list seem to have the tools to try and play that game.
Sac pawn is certainly something i miss though, but perhaps it is better to just ignore the third free solo and get some shamblers in there... The druids shouldnt really get to use sac pawn since they are stealth, but the cavalry might like it...
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chuggyg
Junior Strategist
Posts: 474 
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Post by chuggyg on Jun 25, 2018 20:09:28 GMT
Secret masters is secretly really good, ignore these fools!
As for the druids, I've found that typically speaking you want to field them without the UA, as he's really not worth the points. I use them solely for pushing stuff around (on the rare occasion that I do use them, which lately I haven't!). I don't think the clouds are worth it unless the other guy has forgotten to bring any anti-stealth or blasts.
I can't say I understand the attraction of Baldur here. Secret masters is much better suited to Warlocks like Tanith who will benefit the most from being able to run forward on turn 1 and get those extra inches up the table.
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Post by jisidro on Jun 25, 2018 21:29:27 GMT
chuggygWhat do you mean? Why can Tanith run but not Baldur1? Both work a lot by using upkeeps...
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Post by macdaddy on Jun 25, 2018 21:45:43 GMT
Secret masters is secretly really good, ignore these fools! Explain |
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Post by Trollock on Jun 26, 2018 6:12:05 GMT
Secret masters is secretly really good, ignore these fools! As for the druids, I've found that typically speaking you want to field them without the UA, as he's really not worth the points. I use them solely for pushing stuff around (on the rare occasion that I do use them, which lately I haven't!). I don't think the clouds are worth it unless the other guy has forgotten to bring any anti-stealth or blasts. I can't say I understand the attraction of Baldur here. Secret masters is much better suited to Warlocks like Tanith who will benefit the most from being able to run forward on turn 1 and get those extra inches up the table. I think the UA is pretty central to the way i am planning to use the druids actually. The plan is to have them in concealment so they cant be shot by small arms fire. They are in Sure Foot, so they cant be balsted. They might be clumped up in the forest i create, so sprays would be super dangerous. BUT many sprays are elemental typed and thus will not be able to hurt me. There ARE still sprays that work, but it shuts down a great many of them. Apparition too is pretty important to get the druids to a respectable threat range. I want to push back and control as many pieces as i can, to allow my very few working pieces to do their thing, and the deeper the druids can reach, the more aggressive i can be with the Woldwrath. The attraction with Baldur 1 here for me is that he supports a big nasty Woldwrath AND the druids via his upkeeps. He himself will not do much more than upkeep, feat and throw out the occational forest though. I guess the dream scenario that will never happen is when you push a high ARM infantry model close to the enemy caster with the druids, boosts a shot at it with the Woldwatcher, create a forest that Baldus jumps in to and chops the enemy caster. That is a pipe dream of course, but still |
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Post by jisidro on Jun 26, 2018 8:42:25 GMT
Your big threat is Earth Spikes. With WWrath's animus you get a very decent chance of a KD and then fire at will. Ofc it's best if you have geomancy on the list for extra chances and/or nukes.
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Post by streetpizza on Jun 26, 2018 12:23:39 GMT
You think using druids as a cloud wall is really a good idea? 16 points for a unit that does no work seems expensive... My idea was that they either plink stuff with spells or push stuff away with spells. Either way they wont be clouding much... The only way they can trade with other stuff is by not being attacked... Ever... But this list seem to have the tools to try and play that game. Sac pawn is certainly something i miss though, but perhaps it is better to just ignore the third free solo and get some shamblers in there... The druids shouldnt really get to use sac pawn since they are stealth, but the cavalry might like it... For early turns yes. Once the lines have closed and you're into melee the druids start slinging spells but on the walk up the field I would be using cloudwall to protect from shooting. Its not great protection anymore but it is still protection. Between Solid Ground (not sure foot  ) stealth and sac pawn the wall actually becomes somewhat reliable. I look at the list you've built and wonder, why not play this in bones? What the druids are giving you could be replaced with more wolds and sentry stones. |
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Post by macdaddy on Jun 26, 2018 13:25:53 GMT
You think using druids as a cloud wall is really a good idea? 16 points for a unit that does no work seems expensive... My idea was that they either plink stuff with spells or push stuff away with spells. Either way they wont be clouding much... The only way they can trade with other stuff is by not being attacked... Ever... But this list seem to have the tools to try and play that game. Sac pawn is certainly something i miss though, but perhaps it is better to just ignore the third free solo and get some shamblers in there... The druids shouldnt really get to use sac pawn since they are stealth, but the cavalry might like it... For early turns yes. Once the lines have closed and you're into melee the druids start slinging spells but on the walk up the field I would be using cloudwall to protect from shooting. Its not great protection anymore but it is still protection. Between Solid Ground (not sure foot ) stealth and sac pawn the wall actually becomes somewhat reliable. I look at the list you've built and wonder, why not play this in bones? What the druids are giving you could be replaced with more wolds and sentry stones. Its not too horrible into gunlines. The druids are stealth, def 15, immune to blast, spells, and all elemental damage. The issue is the hitting power is...not there. |
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Post by Trollock on Jun 26, 2018 13:36:47 GMT
You think using druids as a cloud wall is really a good idea? 16 points for a unit that does no work seems expensive... My idea was that they either plink stuff with spells or push stuff away with spells. Either way they wont be clouding much... The only way they can trade with other stuff is by not being attacked... Ever... But this list seem to have the tools to try and play that game. Sac pawn is certainly something i miss though, but perhaps it is better to just ignore the third free solo and get some shamblers in there... The druids shouldnt really get to use sac pawn since they are stealth, but the cavalry might like it... For early turns yes. Once the lines have closed and you're into melee the druids start slinging spells but on the walk up the field I would be using cloudwall to protect from shooting. Its not great protection anymore but it is still protection. Between Solid Ground (not sure foot ) stealth and sac pawn the wall actually becomes somewhat reliable. I look at the list you've built and wonder, why not play this in bones? What the druids are giving you could be replaced with more wolds and sentry stones. If i played Bones (oh, wait, i actually DID play Bones ) I would go with a different caster, and a totally different list. Baldus 1 doesnt strike me as a super good Bones caster. He has one upkeep he wants to place on one thing to make it good. He also gives a "worthless" aura with no knockdown, and free charges to constructs (which you get from one of the very few options you have for free solos anyway). I wanted to leverage more of his toolkit, but mostly i just wanted to build a SM list, not a Bones list. What this list does better than a Bones list with Baldur 1 is control versus heavies, and more infantry clearing. It is most likely worse at actually KILLING heavies, but it tries to take the cowards way out and push them away instead (and perhaps knocking them down for good measure). I come from years and years of playing Trolls, so the control elements in circle really appeal to me i guess |
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Post by streetpizza on Jun 26, 2018 13:37:17 GMT
3x P+S 20 beasts isn't sufficient hitting power? I mean if you're going into Armored Korps or trolls then yeah but then you shouldn't be playing SM into those lists anyway.
You're spot on Trollock. If I was really going to deep dive into Baldur2 I would be in wild hunt or dev host. He does amazing things for infantry.
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Post by Trollock on Jun 26, 2018 13:39:24 GMT
3x P+S 20 beasts isn't sufficient hitting power? I mean if you're going into Armored Korps or trolls then yeah but then you shouldn't be playing SM into those lists anyway. I understand that 1 (or even 2) of the wolds can be POW 20, but how do you manage the third? |
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Post by macdaddy on Jun 26, 2018 13:39:48 GMT
3x P+S 20 beasts isn't sufficient hitting power? I mean if you're going into Armored Korps or trolls then yeah but then you shouldn't be playing SM into those lists anyway. Not when your opponent has more hard hitting models than you...Its not like baldur cheats trades. Wardens also die really easy. |
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Post by streetpizza on Jun 26, 2018 13:40:44 GMT
3x P+S 20 beasts isn't sufficient hitting power? I mean if you're going into Armored Korps or trolls then yeah but then you shouldn't be playing SM into those lists anyway. I understand that 1 (or even 2) of the wolds can be POW 20, but how do you manage the third? Not all in one turn. How often do you send in every asset you've got at the same time? However if you run the wold guardian version then you can deffinitely do 3x P+S 20 in the same turn. |
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) stealth and sac pawn the wall actually becomes somewhat reliable.