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Post by ForEver_Blight on Jun 22, 2018 17:04:24 GMT
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unded
Junior Strategist
Posts: 760
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Post by unded on Jun 22, 2018 20:47:34 GMT
Anyone have a clue what "serpent's coil" is?
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Post by wseraphim on Jun 22, 2018 22:55:09 GMT
Defensive Strike mini feat. So powerful on models with 6 mat 12 pow
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Post by gedditoffme on Jun 23, 2018 3:00:22 GMT
The devils in the detail here. I'm hoping he has his own extra abilities: some bonus mat or a second attack like the Bane Thwarrior UA could make all the difference. Presumably he'll be 3 points (similar to most single model UAs)
A mini feat defensive strike in isolation doesn't feel like enough to me, unless you can give them a buff or dark shroud. Especially since most Dark Host lists aren't looking for a purely defensive unit, and happier to go on the offensive.
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Deller
Junior Strategist
I’m on a Boat
Posts: 605
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Post by Deller on Jun 23, 2018 10:22:37 GMT
Friendly reminder that the Cryx spoilers from the Lock & Load 2017 Keynote were m.imgur.com/a/hzvxU. Only 2/7 of the keynote spoilers, Skarre3 & the Misery Cage, were released that way, & the other 5 all ended up different before they even ended up in CID. The only thing this actually tells us is our Christmas model will be a Bane Knight UA. He could very easily look very different by December.
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germanicus
Junior Strategist
No jokes round ear...
Posts: 358
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Post by germanicus on Jun 23, 2018 17:59:23 GMT
The devils in the detail here. I'm hoping he has his own extra abilities: some bonus mat or a second attack like the Bane Thwarrior UA could make all the difference. Presumably he'll be 3 points (similar to most single model UAs) A mini feat defensive strike in isolation doesn't feel like enough to me, unless you can give them a buff or dark shroud. Especially since most Dark Host lists aren't looking for a purely defensive unit, and happier to go on the offensive. Really? Are single model UA's 3pts in the main? All the ones I know about and have played are 4pts+... No, given how little was mentioned, I mean, literally four words and a number (debatably that!) were of importance in that image. I'm guessing the BK Office will be 4pts, but have a Tactics and/or Granted that will give some extra survivability to the unit. Defensive Strike mini feat. So powerful on models with 6 mat 12 pow Well, look at what's most likely to run to engage or charge them and debuff them... we've got those, haven't we? Besides, even charge/Repo/mini-feat on those stats will cause your opponent enough headaches to mess with their clock or commit an insufficient force (i.e. the statistically most likely amount to die from SC) or overcommit to dealing with them. That's... pretty good?
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juckto
Junior Strategist
Posts: 124
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Post by juckto on Jun 24, 2018 7:40:50 GMT
I'll laugh if he has something like Granted: Dodge.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Jun 25, 2018 6:44:05 GMT
I'm with Deller : before we get all excited or disappointed, we should wait for the CID. I'm quite sure Repo will stay because it fits well with them, but everything else is up in the air. No point cost really makes sense on him to make points work when the base unit is 9/15, except 5, but I doubt they'll make him 5 unless he's really awesome. I'd take him as spoiled at 3 points, for just an extra body, repo and probably +1 MAT, maybe Rapid Strike. At 4 points, I'd probably want him to have Weapon Master or Dark Shroud. It's worth noting that he will probably be cheap or he'll never get taken over a free Warrior CA, which is great value (let's be honest, the Warrior CA is at least a point undercosted) Though now that there will actually be competition for the free slot, maybe they'll use the moment to reevaluate the Bane Warrior CA. I'll laugh if he has something like Granted: Dodge. Not that bad on models with Set Defense, except that they're usually B2B so have nowhere to move, maybe with Goreshade 2?
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Post by tiberius on Jun 25, 2018 10:56:41 GMT
He isn't going to have dark shroud or any other passive damage buff like that I would imagine. Maybe a debuff that takes away enemies MAT or STR while in melee? Defensive strike is probably what they will stick with to make people thing twice about sending single wound infantry in to them. But yeah, MAT 6 POW 12 isn't that impressive against any target worth defensive striking. 4-5 points is probably where he will land, he is free in theme anyhow...after tartarus and the bane warrior UA.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Jun 25, 2018 11:13:17 GMT
4-5 points is probably where he will land, he is free in theme anyhow...after tartarus and the bane warrior UA. So, never
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germanicus
Junior Strategist
No jokes round ear...
Posts: 358
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Post by germanicus on Jun 25, 2018 13:42:13 GMT
I'd take him as spoiled at 3 points, for just an extra body, repo and probably +1 MAT, maybe Rapid Strike. At 4 points, I'd probably want him to have Weapon Master or Dark Shroud. I doubt he'll get Weapon Master or Dark Shroud as that overlaps way too much with the Bane Warriors. Instead, I'd settle for something like Gnawing Pain. Takes a bit of work to get going, but damn it could be annoying. Or Tactics: Killing Spree...
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Post by custardboy on Jun 25, 2018 22:17:08 GMT
Mat6 pow12 isn't THAT threatening to heavies, though not all heavies are arm 19+. Two pow 12s can easily hurt a slayer or neraph, especially if they've already been hit and may risk losing a system. Sure you'll need 8s to hit light infantry but bane knights have 2" melee so you'll get a lot of swings. It does seem like a very strong ability. I would expect 4 points but wouldn't be surprised by 5. 5 points may actually be a good thing, as that makes the whole unit 20 for a free something else
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Post by Gamingdevil on Jun 26, 2018 6:14:32 GMT
Mat6 pow12 isn't THAT threatening to heavies, though not all heavies are arm 19+. Two pow 12s can easily hurt a slayer or neraph, especially if they've already been hit and may risk losing a system. Sure you'll need 8s to hit light infantry but bane knights have 2" melee so you'll get a lot of swings. It does seem like a very strong ability. I would expect 4 points but wouldn't be surprised by 5. 5 points may actually be a good thing, as that makes the whole unit 20 for a free something else I agree that 5 points would be great for shuffling points, but as spoiled he's definitely not worth 5. Ask Retribution players how much they value their once per game MAT 7 POW 12 defensive strikes It's a cool ability and I'll take it if we get it, but it's at best a minor benefit and not worth inflating the points over much. A regular Bane Knight is 1.5 points, so even at 3 points this guy will cost double with probably 1 extra MAT and nothing else. If the reposition is Tactics I'll pay 4 for him, but 5 is just not worth it when you look at the Bane Warrior attachment (which is undercosted, but it is what it is) While we're on the topic of comparing the CA's, I'm kind of getting scared that the Bane Warriors will get the Stormlance treatment: we'll tell them it's not worth it compared to the Bane Warrior Officer & Standard and they'll just go "Well then Warriors are just too good." (they'd be right, but it'd still suck)
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Post by jisidro on Jun 26, 2018 13:10:01 GMT
Reposition [3"] and Defensive strike for a turn is great. Defensive strike won't do much against warjacks/warbeasts but it should punish units such as Bane Knights who charge you.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Jun 26, 2018 15:06:07 GMT
Does he need to bring a damage buff? Dark Host has no shortage of Dark Shroud and the most popular Team Banes casters all have at least something, even if only on a feat turn. Also, the Knights are more tank than DPS, and no, you don't want them crowding the Warriors. Wasn't defining their respective roles one of the bones picked in the CID?
Played against Zaadesh 2 recently? Defensive Strike is useful enough to be a worthy mini-feat. That and Reposition are very strong on a screen that doesn't care about terrain. The Knights can now mini-feat, charge the enemy front line, and then either dig deeper or fall back to screen and/or take a zone, as needed. From playing Champs with Grissel 2, I can tell you that Reposition is amazing in combination with abilities like Defensive Line and Wall of Steel because the unit can charge in wherever they need to, then Repo back into B2B. You might just have to see this in action to fully appreciate it.
Against other melee infantry, especially with reach, you'll probably kill at least a couple of them as they charge in. Against jacks, you can probably get at least two hits on each one. Either way, Defensive Strike helps a bit with attrition.
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