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Post by maplewhisky on Jun 15, 2018 12:08:38 GMT
Hey there folks. Some of you may know me from the Circle Orboros forums as that guy with a billion Battle Reports. Well, I’ve recently started playing Protectorate and have decided to do the same things here. I’ve already played quite a lot of games with them, and this Saturday is my last event with Circle Orboros for a while, on Sunday I’m going to a bud’s house for some games and will be starting my Protectorate journey for reals. So, I used to play Protectorate back in mk2. My favourite casters were High Reclaimer, Sev1, Feora2, Kreoss1 and Harbinger. As of this Sunday I’m going to start on a quest to find a High Reclaimer/Harbinger/Testament pairing (as in, a pairing involving 2 of these 3 casters) and I’ll document that quest here! I’m planning on taking them to the WTC, so I think Testament is probably out of the running for that kind of thing. I don’t like him enough without Hand of Silence because I feel he’s too vulnerable to a lot of RFP / Soul Denial shenanigans. Once we see Hand of Silence on a release schedule I’ll start playing him a lot more. For now, High Reclaimer and Harbinger. I have a Harbinger list I’m very happy with in both EI and FM. The EI one is just good models with Harbinger and the FM list drops Dwarfs and instead runs 3 heavies, 2 of which are indictors. They’re cool lists and I’m pretty happy with them. For now, my fine tuning is going to focus on The High Reclaimer. So, cause I want to test out EI stuff I’ll show you the Harbinger list I’m pairing him with: Protectorate Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Exemplar Interdiction !!! Your army contains CID entries. [Harbinger 1] The Harbinger of Menoth [+28] - Devout [9] - Devout [9] - Vigilant [9] - Hierophant [3] Exemplar Errant Seneschal [3] Exemplar Warder Elias Gade [0(5)] High Exemplar Gravus [8] Knights Exemplar Seneschal [0(5)] Knights Exemplar Seneschal [0(5)] Reclaimer Gatekeeper [3] Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord [4] Choir of Menoth (min) [4] Exemplar Errants (max) [16] - Exemplar Errant Officer & Standard [4] Exemplar Vengers (min) [12] Knights Exemplar [9] Visgoth Juviah Rhoven & Honor Guard [9] I think this is a pretty well rounded Harbinger list considering it’s in EI. I originally had 2 Wracks but I realised if I dropped them the way the free points worked out I could just play an Errant UA. I think that’s probably better than 2 Wracks, but testing will out. Otherwise, the list has a very strong investment into the big Errant blob, but in my games so far 16/18 Errants with tough, steady and martyrdom have been a great asset. The UA also allows them to dodge things like Mortality on a key turn. The Reclaimer has been a surprising star of the show, he turns a lot of matchups vs melee armies that can normally deal with Harbinger’s stuff into hard ones again. In general I think the army of weapon masters has a certain level of output that she just doesn’t really have in FM, and as a result I’m okay making some sacrifices to better control infantry. So, that’s what we’re pairing him with. I think the matchups I’m probably the most concerned about on paper for a pairing of Harbinger and High Reclaimer are Grymkin, because of their strong options for RFP and Healing Denial, then Skorne (specifically Rasheth dub turtle) and Maelok. I don’t think I really like the idea of building High Reclaimer to tango with any of those except maybe Maelok. Or rather, I don’t think I love that plan more than just playing Harbinger vs them but we’ll see how it does in testing. I think the matchup I’m going to point HR at the most is Cygnar. Here’s what I’ve got! [High Reclaimer 1] The High Reclaimer [+32] - Judicator [35] Exemplar Warder Elias Gade [0(5)] High Exemplar Gravus [8] Vassal Mechanik [1] Wrack [1] Choir of Menoth (min) [4] Exemplar Cinerators (max) [13] - Exemplar Cinerator Officer [0(6)] Exemplar Errants (max) [16] - Exemplar Errant Officer & Standard [0(4)] Exemplar Vengers (max) [20] Visgoth Juviah Rhoven & Honor Guard [9] This is using the August releases, so the Cinerator UA will be available thankfully. The idea vs this list is that it should have a decent game vs most Cygnar shenanigans. I’m specifically aiming at Haley3 and Gravediggers. The idea there was to bring Rhoven who alongside a Blessed Judicator can hopefully put a serious dent into the Trenchers making cloudwalls allowing me to meaningfully engage. Errants sadly aren’t stellar in that matchup but the Cinerators and Vengers should be good. I’m especially a big fan of the Vengers with Rhoven, as one of them can happily go and merc an Echo even through clouds. 9s and then 9s with Hand of Fate is pretty good. I originally had a KES, and I’m really sad I don’t have one currently, but I cut him for the Errant UA. Mostly because in a few matchups this lets me reliably destroy my own models to enable my feat, and also High Reclaimer might have the best ability to utilise Quick Work, with Hand of Fate. I’ll test it and see how I feel. Anyway, here’s the premise. Watch this space, reports hopefully coming post weekend.
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Post by shroomvolcano on Jun 15, 2018 12:18:42 GMT
Welcome to the Protectorate, Maplewhiskey! I'm looking forward to seeing some of your reports!
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Post by kuririnad on Jun 17, 2018 23:30:33 GMT
Really sad to see you dropping Circle, even for a little bit, but glad you're sticking somewhere I still follow! Looking forward to your excellent reports.
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Post by maplewhisky on Jun 18, 2018 8:15:30 GMT
Well, I played 2 games yesterday, however because I'm a mug I forgot to take any photos. So you can get cliff notes:
I played vs Lich3 with 9 Slayers on The Pit 2. I won first which was a pretty big deal, it allowed me to take the centre of the table and force the Slayers to contest while my neutral position was a scoring one. I got some early game chip in with the Judicator's guns and some Errant charges, mangling a Slayer and Node. Lich picked off some Errants with Hellfires to deny souls to the Reclaimer, but Gravus can still collect Self Sac souls. The bulk of the action came when a Slayer got right up into my zone and was jamming my Vengers, so Judi had to move to clear it, bringing him into threat of 3 Slayers. I put Warding up on him and had him kill the Slayer in the way and sent in my Vengers, doing some okay damage. More importantly though I used them and Gravus to screen for my Judicator. The Slayers came in, killing Gravus and I think 4 Vengers, then I feated, put Hand of Fate and Battle on the Judicator and killed so much stuff that there was no way the Slayers could recover. However, because I'm an idiot and not at all used to mk3 HR I had been advancing him somewhat aggressively for souls and the turn prior a Slayer had trampled to attack him, dealing 2 damage past Focus. It did mean he was in melee with a Slayer and had to feat back some Cinerators to kill it, which left him stuck in the middle of the table vs a 12 focus Asphyxious3. I was camping 3, but because I'm a bad player I was in range of an Arc Node's gun, Spectral Leech and Lich's spells. The gun hit, the leech hit the hard 7 and thankfully only pulled 1 focus and then Lich hit all 3 hard 7s in a row to leave me on 2 boxes. At that point my opponent conceded. Lesson learned, HR doesn't need to be that far up, souls aren't that important to my gameplan really, 5 Focus is enough to upkeep, allocate 2 and cycle HoF.
My 2nd game was vs Axis with 4 heavies and 2 TEPs in Destruction Initiative. Also on the Pit 2. I lost the roll for first and Axis moved up, digging in the Reflex Servitors. I gave my Errants Desperate Pace and HoF and had them go shoot some Servitors, I think they killed 4. Sadly, I positioned like a chump and lost 8 to the counterattack from TEPs and Elim Servitors. To make matters worse I didn't position my UA in a position to Self Sac him, having him dead would have allowed me to leapfrog commanders, which would have enabled a bunch of Errants to charge one of the TEPs. Oh well. Judicator got Hand of Fate and Battle and managed to do I think 8 damage to an inverter with 2 boosted damage sprays, which was pretty horrific. He also killed a couple Servitors with his rocket pods. Otherwise I shimmied defensively, had my Cinerators shield walling to hold the left flank, and Rhoven & his boys all charged the objective and left it on 4. 2 Vengers charged into the Inverter Judi had shot and left it on I believe 4 boxes. It was a sad turn for dice.
In my opponent's turn the Inverter didn't die to fire and got repaired up. Axis feated and cleared out some models with heavies then sent an Inverter into my Judicator, taking out one side. Another inverter killed a Venger. The TEP shot the Judi twice with 5d6 damage, leaving it on about 15 boxes. On the left the other TEP killed 2 of Rhovens boys, electing to ignore the unit of Cinerators. So, critically my Judicator could spray and hit 2 heavies with his sprays. He got battle, repaired HoF was upkept and he sprayed across both Inverters, leaving the one that charged it on 1 box and the one that killed a Venger on 3 boxes after the Rocket pods shot it twice. I activated Gade and didn't ask for remaining boxes on the one near my Judicator and my opponent didn't look / check, so Gade shot the one on 3 boxes twice. High Reclaimer walked up, feated back 3 Vengers in range of my opponent's TEP, and 3 Errants. I used them to jam countercharges and kill both heavies on 1 box, having to Quick Work into the back of my own errant to get him out my Venger's lane (although had that failed, HoF impacts are very likely to kill him). The UA charged the Conservator and did a casual 11 damage at dice off 11. The Vengers charged, killing the TEP and dealing some decent damage to the Conservator. Then Gravus with 2 souls charged the Conservator, killing it off.
We called the game at this point because my opponent had basically no models on the right flank. A counterattack turn that removes a Battle Engine & 3 Heavies is quite hard to recover from, especially on Axis' feat turn!
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So these were some fun games, I enjoyed them quite a bit and my list felt quite strong. I was playing variations similar to this in the CID but always with a Shrine. Gravus isn't nearly as good, obviously but he does let me easily fit Rhoven into my list. I didn't like him that much on paper but on the table he's not that bad, he's kind of hard to kill (although 12/17 now Vengers are 12/18 bothers me) but he does bring a lot of utility to the list, with DP, Dispel and Steady. The Cinerators did nothing really in either of my games, but I'll wait to see how they feel in some more before passing judgement. I have to imagine there are matchups they will just print money due to giving me a source of RFP and being quite hard for guns to remove.
That's all for now and sorry for the lack of pictures! Hopefully that won't happen again.
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Cyel
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Cyel on Jun 18, 2018 12:17:14 GMT
Have I missed something and are the final CiD rules official already? You address them as if their final week's iteration is live and can be used in actual games outside of the playtest process.
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Post by maplewhisky on Jun 18, 2018 12:28:06 GMT
Have I missed something and are the final CiD rules official already? You address them as if their final week's iteration is live and can be used in actual games outside of the playtest process. They’re not, they will be by WTC which is what I’m practicing for. Hence playing CID rules.
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Cyel
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Cyel on Jun 18, 2018 13:27:03 GMT
Are you really sure they will be unchanged ? Any insider info you may want to share with us ;> ?
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Post by maplewhisky on Jun 18, 2018 13:45:00 GMT
Just based off the prior cids. I doubt any of my hr models will be changed though. If anything im expecting the indictor or harby.
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Hashmal
Junior Strategist
Posts: 557
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Post by Hashmal on Jun 18, 2018 14:00:51 GMT
I think it's highly unlikely that any of the models maple used will be changed post-CID. And honestly, if they are I would expect further buffs.
-Cinerators and CA were changed in Week 2 and untouched for the remainder of CID. Consensus on them was positive, if expensive. -Rhoven's only change was to count as free points. I do not see this being reverted. -Judicator went through progressive buffing iterations, with the last one seeming to strike a chord with players. Only change here might be in points. -Errants were changed in Week 1 and not touched after that. I don't see them changing (much to my chagrin, as I called for CA changes). -Vengers were buffed slightly in Week 2. Change was met with positive feedback and no detraction. Some felt it didn't go far enough. -The only change that might happen is Gravus losing DP and Gade getting it back. Both are in maple's list, however, so this will functionally affect nothing.
@maple, some good games. HR is an amazing 'caster right now and I really like him in EI. I was also thinking of a Judicator-based build. Cinerators with him is a good look, I think, because it puts the screws to Cygnar. Hard to crack through ARM 21 consistently and those charging WM attacks are threatening vs. Cygnar pieces. Even better when you can bury, Feat, and do it again.
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Cyel
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Cyel on Jun 19, 2018 6:18:42 GMT
I definitely hope they will come to their senses and not let Harby changes through. I don't want another edition of leaving her on the shelf for being OP.
Although our players (incl. WTC ones) seem convinced that PP is basically clueless about how to play her opressively, or at all, really - that's why she appeared out of the blue in CiD with buffs in the first place - and CiD may not have changed this opinion enough. Basically they go "silly PP, have no idea how to play this game, buffing PoM's most potent caster".
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Post by HighPaladin on Jun 19, 2018 11:58:21 GMT
I definitely hope they will come to their senses and not let Harby changes through. I don't want another edition of leaving her on the shelf for being OP.
Although our players (incl. WTC ones) seem convinced that PP is basically clueless about how to play her opressively, or at all, really - that's why she appeared out of the blue in CiD with buffs in the first place - and CiD may not have changed this opinion enough. Basically they go "silly PP, have no idea how to play this game, buffing PoM's most potent caster".
Factions generally seem to be coming through CID with a fairly OP caster. Guess ours is Harby, because it's not Kreoss2 or Cyrenia
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Post by maplewhisky on Jun 19, 2018 22:59:51 GMT
Wellp, changing up Harby a bit in light of CID.
[Harbinger 1] The Harbinger of Menoth [+28] - Crusader [10] - Devout [9] - Vigilant [9] - Hierophant [3] Exemplar Warder [0(5)]] Exemplar Warder [0(5)]] Exemplar Errant Seneschal [3] Exemplar Errant Seneschal [3] Exemplar Warder Elias Gade [0(5)] High Exemplar Gravus [8] Knights Exemplar Seneschal [5] Knights Exemplar Seneschal [5] Reclaimer Gatekeeper [3] Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord [4] Choir of Menoth (min) [4] Exemplar Errants (max) [16] Exemplar Vengers (min) [12] Visgoth Juviah Rhoven & Honor Guard [9]
I have to at least -try- the 4 Inhuman Resolve build. Also at this point I'm just accepting that I will roll over to stuff like Mortality, so High Reclaimer's going to have to tango with that. Keen to give this a try.
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Post by maplewhisky on Jul 16, 2018 17:31:48 GMT
Alright folks. Battle Reports were promised and Battle Reports you shall have! I attended the Northwest Team Championships this past weekend, which is basically a bunch of folks coming together in the UK to play games, featuring a bunch of WTC teams! Naturally we Scots sent a contingent down to have some fun. I decided that fun was for chumps, and was very prepared to play 12 hours of Testament, so I could get the maximum value from my ticket. Here's my list: conflictchamber.com/#c2201b_-0E0Q1r1r1Lk93p3p2l2m2v3G3H2jProtectorate Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Exemplar Interdiction [High Reclaimer 2] Testament of Menoth [+27] - Devout [9] - Devout [9] - Vigilant [9] Exemplar Warder Elias Gade [0(5)] Knights Exemplar Seneschal [0(5)] Knights Exemplar Seneschal [5] Exemplar Errants (min) [10] Exemplar Errants (max) [16] Exemplar Vengers (max) [20] Idrian Skirmishers (max) [15] - Idrian Skirmisher Chieftain & Guide [0(5)] Knights Exemplar [9] I did have a 2nd list, it was a HR list with a Revelator, Vessel and Rhoven that was there to scare Haley3 players and for myself to never play. Full lists for the event can be found here: conflictchamber.com/?event=283Our first round was against Team Painfully Average. I got dropped into their Cygnar player, David, who had Caine3 with a tonne of jacks with guns and pHaley with a tonne of gun mages. I'm not going to lie, as a mk2 Cryx player seeing pHaley with a tonne of gun mages brought back some.... uncomfortable memories. We picked casters and the matchup was Tommy vs pHaley. I lost the roll and got given second, I took the side that had the nice forest near the middle for ToM to hide behind. We deployed and got started! Prey from Gade and the Idrians went on the right hand unit of Gun Mages. My opponent advanced pretty cautiously, respecting my 30 or so AD guns. The Blazers however had no such qualms and bolted far up the left flank, still out of my range but wide. In my turn my army pressed up the table, with Cloak of Ash going on the central Errants. The Idrians dug in, and I kept some insurance models back, safe from Blazers and Sniped models and other such nonsense. My opponent cast Deadeye on both units of gunmages and feated with Haley. I lost a -lot- of infantry. My dug in Idrians died in droves, and I lost two models to electro leap which made me sad. By the end of the turn I had probably less than half an army, but I did have an absolutely enormous pile of focus. I brought back a tonne of models, moving ToM quite far up to get them in a position to engage a bunch of gun mages and use ashen veil & concealment to hopefully live through some gunfighter action. ToM then feated and camped I believe 2. Otherwise my KES charged the Hunter in the right hand zone and managed to just kill it by himself. I realise now looking at the photo that I charged it 9", and I'm going to have to apologise to David, I have this mental block on those solos being SPD5, they were SPD6 in mk2 and it's sticking in my head. >: Cheating aside, my Vengers now had nothing to do as my KES had rolled so well so mostly pranced around and I think killed a gun mage. The Idrians took some shots and killed a few more, so did Gade. The plan was to clear the right zone, get Gade on the flag and then jam everything else as hard as I could, which I manged to do. The score went to 2-0 for the Protectorate. With Deadeye my opponent managed to clear out a lot of my models in melee. That said, Ashen Veil & Concealment was still something of a problem, so I had a few left over. Also, due to such a hard push on the right flank the turn before very little of note was achieved over there. My opponent ran the squire into my zone but wasn't able to get at my flag. The score went to 3-0 Protectorate. Well, despite my left flank evaporating to the gunfire, all I had to do was clear the Squire to win the game. For style I did it with Dust to Dust. The score went to 5-0 Protectorate. After the game my opponent and I chatted some, turns out this was his 5th game since mk3 launch-ish! I'm glad that he's enjoying the game, I think it's much better than the start of mk3, which is when I left too. That said I do hope he moves away from such heavy gunlines, they tend not to be fun for anyone when they're good. My team won this round and we progressed 1-0 into Round 2!
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Hashmal
Junior Strategist
Posts: 557
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Post by Hashmal on Jul 16, 2018 18:52:45 GMT
Good writeup! Man, that KE Seneschal change always gets my goat too. I keep thinking he's still SPD 6.
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