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Post by pvtjoker on Jun 15, 2018 0:20:54 GMT
I am looking for some advice/opinion on some list tweaking. I have been playing off and on since MkI but don't get a lot of games in most months. I've recently been using Nemo1 in the following list:
Nemo1 (Heavy Metal) - Centurion - Ironclad - Firefly - Firefly - Lancer - Squire (free) Junior (free) -Cyclone Jakes (free) - Ironclad Strangewayes Storm Strider Min Mechanics
So, things I like are: - Polarity Field and Covering Fire provide some denial, especially into lists with a lot of weapon master infantry. - Ionization supports Nemo's Feat, Nemo's gun (can be RAT 7 POW 16, AOE 4), Chain Lightning, and e-leaps from Lightning Generator and Lightning Shroud. Man, a Firefly with Lightning Shroud and four Focus can eat so many infantry. -Lots of boosting/load sharing. From turn two on I can have up to 25 Focus on the table plus power tokens on the Strider. Jakes and Nemo can both load up jacks and manipulate their movement. Not Road to War good, but useful.
The problem I have is I'm going melee heavy in Cygnar and don't have the guns to force my opponent forward. I'm thinking about switching the Ironclads into Defenders to provide big guns that can threat assassination, soften the approach, and switch to hitting when the time comes. My current ideas are: 1) Turn the Cyclone into a Sentinel and remove Mechanics. Lose Covering Fire and reduce repair capability; gain Shield Guard. 2) Remove a Firefly. Technically don't lose anything, but flexibility of Ionization is significantly reduced.
So I guess the question is which of these options seems better, or other options too (except play H3 in Gravediggers). Separately if you have a Nemo1 list you like I'd be interested in seeing it.
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Post by darkangeldentist on Jun 15, 2018 9:31:44 GMT
I am also not playing much (and currently using minions when I do) so take my comments with a pinch of salt but I do like Nemo1 and spend rather more time list crunching Cygnar ideas than anything else.
I would keep the cyclone (because I love that jack) but move it to Jakes, she can energiser it around to either extend it's threat range or bring it back after placing covering fire. (Great against all those obnoxious range 12" foes such as mage hunter strike force.) I have a personal loathing for ironclads as fragile brittle jacks so I would drop one and replace it with a sentinel on Junior. That's enough to bump the other ironclad up to a defender giving you a little ranged assassination threat to back up the storm strider's.
I have been quite excited by the prospect of Caine0 with Ace and fire for effect on thunderhead with Nemo1. With 4 focus and the benefits from fire fore effect you can get boosted damage for all 3 shots (with a boosted attack to boot). There is some appeal here for the pulse but I'm really thinking about assassinations with the normal range 10 shots which with locomotion threaten 18" up the table and if you can get ionisation to it, delivers 3 POW 16 boosted damage shots into the enemy caster. Ace can deliver a shadow fire shot to open up line of sight and Caine can thunderbolt stuff around as well. Not settled on a list that uses it yet but I'm beguiled by it.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jun 15, 2018 12:35:53 GMT
I am also not playing much (and currently using minions when I do) so take my comments with a pinch of salt but I do like Nemo1 and spend rather more time list crunching Cygnar ideas than anything else. I would keep the cyclone (because I love that jack) but move it to Jakes, she can energiser it around to either extend it's threat range or bring it back after placing covering fire. (Great against all those obnoxious range 12" foes such as mage hunter strike force.) I have a personal loathing for ironclads as fragile brittle jacks so I would drop one and replace it with a sentinel on Junior. That's enough to bump the other ironclad up to a defender giving you a little ranged assassination threat to back up the storm strider's. I have been quite excited by the prospect of Caine0 with Ace and fire for effect on thunderhead with Nemo1. With 4 focus and the benefits from fire fore effect you can get boosted damage for all 3 shots (with a boosted attack to boot). There is some appeal here for the pulse but I'm really thinking about assassinations with the normal range 10 shots which with locomotion threaten 18" up the table and if you can get ionisation to it, delivers 3 POW 16 boosted damage shots into the enemy caster. Ace can deliver a shadow fire shot to open up line of sight and Caine can thunderbolt stuff around as well. Not settled on a list that uses it yet but I'm beguiled by it. I am going to have to steal that Caine0, T-Head and Nemo 1 combo, sounds like great fun
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gmonkey
Junior Strategist
I, for one, welcome our Infernal Overlords.
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Post by gmonkey on Jun 15, 2018 13:10:15 GMT
Nemo1 is still my favorite Cygnar caster, even though I haven't played him in a while. I've been through all the same list problems you're seeing, and tried different things. In the end, I moved away from Nemo1 because he seems primarily to be an attrition caster who's good against Warmachine rather than against Hordes, and my local meta is largely Hordes and undisruptible colossals or battle engines.
Nemo is good at a number of things, but the thing he's best at is being assassinated. He's got for reals old man stats. I'm guessing he's hiding behind your storm strider much of the time.
I've run Nemo1 lists with a couple ironclads, but in the end I limited myself to a maximum of one heavy without a gun, and that's usually a centurion or hammersmith. (Because arcane shielded centurions are bananas, and the hammersmith with beat back, lightning shroud, and four focus can get up to seven e-leaps, each moving further across the field)
I love the cyclone too, but I always marshall it on Runewood for the reposition 5. Getting 2d3 RAT 8 POW 14 shots with Take Aim! is far better than the potential of allocating focus in my mind.
Your idea of turning the ironclads to defenders sounds good - it lets those jacks actually do something while they're sitting back waiting. I'd drop the cyclone and change it to a sentinel - cyclone isn't nearly as appealing to me without the repo 5.
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xadmar
Junior Strategist
Posts: 173
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Post by xadmar on Jun 15, 2018 16:21:14 GMT
You will find a lot of Nemo 1 Hate and Love on this site. I am in the Love camp. I could never find a list with him that really felt good. One thing I never did was run him with more gun jacks then anything else so maybe that will be a good fix. I could see using the Cyclone and putting LS on it. That way you have shots if you need them or infantry clearing with melee and e-leaps.
Nemo might be good into Slay9 with his Pow 14/16 feat.
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Post by pvtjoker on Jun 15, 2018 17:08:21 GMT
You will find a lot of Nemo 1 Hate and Love on this site. I am in the Love camp. I could never find a list with him that really felt good. One thing I never did was run him with more gun jacks then anything else so maybe that will be a good fix. I could see using the Cyclone and putting LS on it. That way you have shots if you need them or infantry clearing with melee and e-leaps. Nemo might be good into Slay9 with his Pow 14/16 feat. Yeah, and people tend to love or hate the Cyclone too so asking about a Nemo list with a Cyclone in it is going to get responses from all over the board. So far the responses are one keep/one drop. That isn't a bad thing though. The biggest thing I use the Cyclone for is crowd control because in don't have infantry and usually find that shooting with it is a trap unless I'm up against another battlegroup army and it is targeting support models. It either does really well or is a paper weight so after a game where it did nothing I want to drop it, but then I think if times it has kept Satyrixs or Hammer Dwarves at bay. On a complete side more I would love a dynamic update that changed Nemo's Feat to causing Disruption on jacks and Brain Damage on beasts. It would make it more relevant but not really OP.
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Post by darkangeldentist on Jun 15, 2018 18:07:46 GMT
You're welcome to, if I get around to putting it on the table myself I will post how it got on here. pvtjoker, I like your suggested change to Nemo1's feat. Brain damage initially sounds very powerful but it essentially only stops beasts casting their animii for a round. Nice idea. I like Cyclones, covering fire is a solid ability and definitely helps control enemy infantry. As I said in my first reply, I'd keep it but put it on Jakes to take advantage of energiser. It's a pretty nice target for side-kick as well. (If you factor in deceleration most turns it'll be a 14/20 against ranged and magic, which isn't bad at all.) I do like the sound of the marshalled option for reposition as well.
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gmonkey
Junior Strategist
I, for one, welcome our Infernal Overlords.
Posts: 313
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Post by gmonkey on Jun 15, 2018 19:26:36 GMT
Don't get me wrong - I actually really like the cyclone. And now that I'm thinking about this more, I'm thinking that the cyclone is an especially important model with Nemo1 - let me explain why. Nemo1 is a jack-heavy caster. And I've always imagined a rock/paper/scissors thing between jacks/beasts > gunlines > infantry. Of course, this is a gross oversimplification, we all know that warmachine is more complex than just this. But whereas most gunlines can't manage to crack the armor on heavies, and lots of infantry gets mowed down by gunlines before they can close, jacks can get wrecked by heavy or weaponmaster infantry. And so infantry is Nemo1's weakness. Which means the cyclone's covering fire, and even those 2d3 POW12 shots, can be very very useful. The other thing is that whereas the Stormwall and trench gun have POW10 covering fire, the cyclone is the only thing with POW12 covering fire. This may not seem like much, but it makes a huge difference with higher ARM heavy infantry. But again about the cyclone, and then I promise I'll let this go - I just feel that you're losing a ton by not jack marshalling it. A single boost isn't as good as the extra 2 POW on 2d3 attacks, and that repo 5 is a huge deal. With Nemo1, I really like to have 4 heavies, but in your case the Strider is acting like a heavy. It can't get four focus, but it's getting 1d3 for free, so that's fine. And the four focus is a much bigger deal on a heavy than on a light, so I tend to put lights on the two juniors. I usually take chargers or fireflies. I've also more recently considered dumping Jakes for Lynus & Edrea just to try something new. ( see this thread) I may have mentioned this above, but I also really like a hammersmith with Nemo because it's amazing with lightning shroud. And avengers are nice because whether they're knocking down or using their stun sword on Nemo's feat turn, enemy jacks aren't shaking it. I've gone into a lot more detail elsewhere if you're interested: casualty-wmh.blogspot.com/2017/04/all-your-focus-are-belong-to-us.htmlI also just realized that you didn't include Dynamo! Maybe you don't own him, but being able to put four focus on Dynamo and get re-rolls on attacks is just bonkers. With lightning shroud, his attacks start at POW19. Then he buys attacks at POW20, POW21, POW22, and POW23. And he can do this every round. This will put an average of something like 40 damage onto an ARM19 colossal. So with all this in mind, trying to keep your list as similar to how it is now, and keep the Cyclone in, I'd probably go with something like this: conflictchamber.com/#c1201b_-0n8X9BeO9c9yakan9Caj9ce59bbzCygnar Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Heavy Metal [Nemo 1] Commander Adept Nemo [+30] - Centurion [17] - Dynamo [18] - Firefly [8] - Lancer [10] - Squire [0(5)] Captain Arlan Strangewayes [0(4)] - Cyclone [13] Journeyman Warcaster [0(4)] - Firefly [8] Lieutenant Allison Jakes [4] - Charger [9] Storm Strider [18] I don't like that it's got no repair, and I don't like that Nemo only has two heavies, but I'm never going to get everything I want in a single list.
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Post by pvtjoker on Jun 16, 2018 12:26:47 GMT
Unfortunately I do not have Dynamo and since my meta has been drying up over the past year I have been hesitant to spend money on a character jack.
Regarding marshalling the Cyclone, I have done in a number of lists. Gun Mage CA, Runewood, SBC, and Strangewayes have all piloted one because the potential for the bonuses are pretty decent if you roll three or more shots. Had not really thought about it in this list though since the juniors need jacks. Hmm.
Well I think you guys have talked me into keeping the Cyclone which I was leaning toward dropping. I really want to see how much control/threat two Defenders give me so I think I'll just drop a Firefly for now and see what I get. Thank you for you time.
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Post by lerderk on Jun 17, 2018 9:43:42 GMT
I'm going to admit the idea of your Firefly's Missiles seduced me, Nemo "memesiles" haha. I will try to field something similar to what you proposed, maybe I will drop here the results
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Post by jagius021 on Jun 18, 2018 3:59:03 GMT
Try using Aiyana and Holt under Murdoch. That can help anyone's ranged game, making the cyclone hit a good deal harder. not that I am saying I know what to take out of a list, but try it out and see how you like it.
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Post by lerderk on Jun 19, 2018 5:57:52 GMT
I fielded Nemo1 just yesterday, I was lucky to find someone to play on a Monday haha. The firefly Missiles are bonkers, the list works. It's kind of a Black horse, because the mat 6 will make it unreliable in most of the situations but it was fun to play. It offers quite a lot to the table and you can stick to a plan and go with it. Loving back again Nemo1
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xadmar
Junior Strategist
Posts: 173
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Post by xadmar on Jun 19, 2018 17:22:15 GMT
Nice!
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Post by pvtjoker on Jun 19, 2018 22:22:16 GMT
I fielded Nemo1 just yesterday, I was lucky to find someone to play on a Monday haha. The firefly Missiles are bonkers, the list works. It's kind of a Black horse, because the mat 6 will make it unreliable in most of the situations but it was fun to play. It offers quite a lot to the table and you can stick to a plan and go with it. Loving back again Nemo1 Would you mind expanding some on how your game went? We have a significant lack of battle reports for Cygnar around here.
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gmonkey
Junior Strategist
I, for one, welcome our Infernal Overlords.
Posts: 313
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Post by gmonkey on Jun 20, 2018 18:33:50 GMT
We have a significant lack of battle reports for Cygnar around here. I'm doing my best to add a couple here and there, although I don't always get them up on this board: lormahordes.freeforums.net/thread/6845/cygnar-battle-reportsI should have a Ossrum vs Nemo3 BatRep going up on Friday...ish. Sorry if this is too much of a tangent.
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