Zaku
Junior Strategist
Posts: 224
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Post by Zaku on Jul 9, 2018 16:25:25 GMT
Try the spikes of the latest Deneghra 2 sculpt. They are much less flimsy. Great! Thank you for the heads up! I will look into that.
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Zaku
Junior Strategist
Posts: 224
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Post by Zaku on Aug 14, 2018 7:28:03 GMT
Well, been playing more and more with the Broken Coast theme, and I have started to get some decent results with the Blood Witches and ambushing.
A well timed ambush let me crowd an opponent out of being able to score points on scenario, leading to a Cryx win.
I have been playing a lot of Deneghra1 with my Satyxis, and man... She has been a real boost to my army. Ghost Walk has been incredible for my warjacks since they lack Pathfinder, amd allows for some very interesting attack angles with them and other models.
She also pushes the Satyxis Raiders into being far more survivable than they should be. I have run into a few problems with positioning, and how many important models I can drag into Deneghra1's feat.
Also, I am still struggling with which ability is best to use with the Blood Witches. It is just too tempting to try and pop a Trencher and make a damage roll against a Cannon Crew that is 4" away, or try to go Incorporeal with the Blood Witches... But those dang Trenchers always seem to make their Tough rolls when I least want them to. Grievous Wounds really seems like it would be the best against Trenchers, but it just leaves them so open to Trencher Commando grenades.
Next up will be trying the Witch Coven into my Broken Coast theme. I am planning on working towards having a Black Industries army as well, but I am hoping the Witch Coven give me a but better anti-shooting tech to safely deliver my heavies. I have learned that Defenders and Caine2 are quite adept at tearing apart my Seethers and Reaper.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Aug 14, 2018 10:08:47 GMT
Zaku funny tactic for Blood Witches, Blood Shadow does not specify 'enemy' model. So you can stab your own Blood Witches to turn them incorporeal, can be good for contesting zones and flags if your opponent does not have easy access to magic weapons
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Zaku
Junior Strategist
Posts: 224
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Post by Zaku on Aug 14, 2018 13:10:35 GMT
Zaku funny tactic for Blood Witches, Blood Shadow does not specify 'enemy' model. So you can stab your own Blood Witches to turn them incorporeal, can be good for contesting zones and flags if your opponent does not have easy access to magic weapons Oh... my... goodness. I did not even notice that! That is absolutely brilliant.
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Zaku
Junior Strategist
Posts: 224
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Post by Zaku on Aug 15, 2018 3:32:25 GMT
Alright, so I have decided to expand into Black Industries with my Cryx since I am happy enough with where my Broken Coast theme lists are going, and would like some advice to see if my thought process is along the right track.
These are the warcasters I plan on using for my Black Industries theme lists: -Asphyxious3 -Venethrax1 -Witch Coven1 -And either Skarre2 or Deneghra2
While tinkering with lists, I noticed a few things:
Asphyxious3
Asphysious3 gives +2 SPD and Pathfinder to his warjacks... but they don't get free charges. It is still insanely powerful with a large amount of warjacks, so while running 7 Slayers with him seems like it could be fun, I found it kind of boring and not as efficient as I initially thought. I kind of like the idea of using the 2 Seethers and Reaper I already own, and tacking on another 3 Slayers into his battlegroup. The free charges from the Seethers and Berserk can help offset some of main issues I was running into when thinking about list construction, and that is quantity of attacks. It also helps remove some of the Focus burden off of Asphysious3. The Reaper also seems to benefit greatly from +2 SPD and Pathfinder to get better angles with it's harpoon, and also doesn't need a ton of Focus to do it's job. While using the Reaper in my Broken Coast lists, it is also quite a capable melee warjack when committed to the fight after the primary melee warjacks have gotten in or are destroyed. Here is what I was thinking of for Asphyxious3's list:
Cryx - Asphyxious3 75pt. BI
Theme: Black Industries 2 / 2 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Asphyxious the Hellbringer - WJ: +24 - Vociferon - Slayer - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10) - Slayer - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10) - Slayer - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 4) - Reaper - PC: 13 - Seether - PC: 13 - Seether - PC: 13 - Nightwretch - PC: 0 - Nightwretch - PC: 0
Warwitch Siren - PC: 4 Warwitch Siren - PC: 4 Necrotech - PC: 2
Cephalyx Mind Slaver & Drudges - Slaver & 9 Drudge Grunts: 12 Cephalyx Overlords - Leader & 2 Grunts: 8
Is it worth trying to squeeze in the Cankerworm with Asphyxious3? It seems like a nice piece to have, but I just wasn't quite sure how best to fit it in, and had two thoughts. 1) Dropping the Cephalyx Overlords and replacing the Necrotech with a Soul Trapper to fill points. 2) Dropping a Slayer and taking Cankerworm and a Soul Trapper. Would love some advice.
Witch Coven
For The Witch Coven, the list is pretty similar, so won't discuss it in length too much. The Coven also seem provide good movement shenanigans and a threat range extension with their warjacks, the Seethers and Reaper were also put into the list because I have found them efficient warjacks that provide good utility... Plus it means less warjacks I have to go out and buy! The Soul Trapper was really just thrown is as a point filler, feed the Withershadow Combine, and be a cheap Solo for scenarios.
Cryx - Coven1 75pt. BI
Theme: Black Industries 2 / 2 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
The Witch Coven of Garlghast - WJ: +26 - Egregore - The Withershadow Combine - Maelovus, Admonia & Tremulus: 9 - Slayer - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10) - Slayer - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10) - Slayer - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 6) - Reaper - PC: 13 - Seether - PC: 13 - Seether - PC: 13 - Nightwretch - PC: 0 - Nightwretch - PC: 0
Warwitch Siren - PC: 4 Warwitch Siren - PC: 4 Necrotech - PC: 2 Soul Trapper - PC: 1
Cephalyx Mind Slaver & Drudges - Slaver & 9 Drudge Grunts: 12
Venethrax
I am not going to lie... I was drawing quite the blank with Venethrax, going all in with 7 Slayers just seems so efficient with him, but again, I didn't want to just spam Slayers. I tried thinking a bit differently with Venethrax, who mainly seems to empower his warjacks into living model slaying machines. I kind of liked the idea of Terminal Velocity and Harrowers. Thresher and Quick Work do kind of work against each other, but against infantry with Tough, it seems to be a match made in heaven. Charge for free, boosted Thresher attacks, anything that didn't die is now Knocked Down leaving it unengaged for Quick Work and lets the Harrower finish off stragglers for more Quick Work shots. I wanted at least one arc node equipped light warjack to keep my options open, and the Shrikes are there for Countercharging nonsense mostly. I took two Soul Trappers instead of a second Necrotech for scooping up souls and passing them Venethrax, the Combine and the Harrowers.
Theme: Black Industries 2 / 2 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Lich Lord Venethrax - WJ: +26 - The Withershadow Combine - Maelovus, Admonia & Tremulus: 9 - Slayer - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10) - Slayer - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10) - Slayer - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 6) - Harrower - PC: 16 - Harrower - PC: 16 - Shrike - PC: 6 - Shrike - PC: 0 - Nightwretch - PC: 0
Warwitch Siren - PC: 4 Warwitch Siren - PC: 4 Necrotech - PC: 2 Soul Trapper - PC: 1 Soul Trapper - PC: 1
Cephalyx Mind Slaver & Drudges - Slaver & 9 Drudge Grunts: 12
Skarre2 or Deneghra2
When thinking about Skarre2 in Black Industries, I was drawing a total blank. Can she work well with the models listed in the other lists I have posted? I really don't want to try and jam her into a crap list while trying to avoid buying a slew of new models.
Deneghra2 seems much easier to slot into Black Industries using the other models I would be buying for the other lists I posted, so I kind of feel she is the better choice in the long run. But, I really don't know.
Whew! Sorry for the long post, just wanted to get all the thoughts I had out at once for discussion.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Aug 16, 2018 8:09:16 GMT
Zaku will just break up the post here instead of quoting everything. Asphyxious 3: Using utility jacks instead of spamming Slayers is a viable build, people get too hung up on getting as much Unyielding on the table as possible. In this respect, Cankerworm is definitely worth it. I would drop the Drudges as your jacks will be durable enough to not need a screen. You could then consider dropping more (not the Overlords) for including some Black Ogrun Iron Mongers, I would suggest a Siren. Coven: Again not sure if you want that screening infantry unit, as you will have your feat to ensure the alpha. More Seethers and/or Stalkers are not bad to have with them. Murderous Stalkers threatening 15" and fully loaded Seethers are scary. Slayers don't offer them enough in my opinion. Overlords are never a bad thing to have. Venethrax: When I played him, I found I was often outthreatened and his jacks are fragile, but he is fun. Maybe you'll have better luck with the screening infantry. Harrowers do work well, but they are expensive, note also that after knocking everything down, you can buy attacks and trigger multiple Quick Works. Also look into Desecrators, they have a good crit effect and the gun is useful to deny infantry. More Pathfinder is also good as he doesn't natively grant it to his jacks. I recommend Ripjaws and Scavengers for free points. Ripjaws can hurt a lot with up to 4 dice on attacks rolls and critical Armour Piercing. Skarre 2: I think she is best in Slaughterfleet, though I suppose Black Industries could work, investing in some solid, self sufficient high-value models such as Deathjack, Kraken and Seethers. Denny 2: she's indeed quite solid and likes Deathjack and a mid-size battle group as well as at least one option for Puppet Master (Withershadow Combine or Eilish).
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Zaku
Junior Strategist
Posts: 224
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Post by Zaku on Aug 20, 2018 2:25:41 GMT
Great advice gamingdevil. I am working on a new list that includes Cankerworm for Asphysious3, although I really don't want to drop the Cephalyx Mindslaver and Drudges... I want a little bit of variety of the army, and they give me more scenario presence. I was thinking of a second unit of Overlords for Asphyxious3 to get more Stealthed infantry that have Magic Ability 7 and Puppet Master. That would also get me a second unit, and allow me to upgrade another Slayer to a Seether, and take a Soul Trapper for scenarios. I may just drop the Drudges for the Asphysious3 version of my Black Industries list, because he really is geared to large battlegroups of warjacks.
All of the Black Industries lists I am making have two Warwitch Sirens and a Necrotech. I think that the Ironmongers are VERY good, I just prefer being able to get two mechanics that operate independently for 4 points, and just plain think the Necrotechs look a bit more cool and fit the aesthetic of the army better.
I hear a lot of people say bad things about Nightmare, even with any of the Deneghras. I would like to use him, since it provides a good heavy to use with Denny and a Stalker in Broken Coast, and seems effective enough in a non-competitive setting with Deneghra2 in Black Industries.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Aug 20, 2018 6:59:51 GMT
I hear a lot of people say bad things about Nightmare, even with any of the Deneghras. I would like to use him, since it provides a good heavy to use with Denny and a Stalker in Broken Coast, and seems effective enough in a non-competitive setting with Deneghra2 in Black Industries. I think Nightmare is very good, but... not worth 18 points for the same threat range and hit boxes as a regular Slayer. If you want to play him, Denny 2 is definitely the way to go though as she likes the native Ghostly and Stealth a lot. Just always Prey the warcaster, so it's there when you inevitably go for assassination
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Zaku
Junior Strategist
Posts: 224
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Post by Zaku on Sept 17, 2018 5:53:32 GMT
Well, I ran this against a 'beast heavy Lylyth1 Legion army yesterday:
Theme: Scourge of the Broken Coast 2 / 2 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Skarre, Queen of the Broken Coast - WJ: +26 - Satyxis Blood Priestess - PC: 4 - Deathripper - PC: 6 (Battlegroup Points Used: 6) - Corruptor - PC: 14 (Battlegroup Points Used: 14) - Seether - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 6) - Seether - PC: 13
Axiara Wraithblade - PC: 0 Severa Blacktide - PC: 0
Satyxis Blood Witches - Leader & 9 Grunts: 13 - Satyxis Blood Hag - PC: 4 Satyxis Raiders - Leader & 9 Grunts: 16 - Satyxis Raider Sea Witch - PC: 4 Satyxis Gunslingers - Leader & 2 Grunts: 7 Satyxis Gunslingers - Leader & 2 Grunts: 7
And I am not going to lie, I was impressed. Even with me totally forgetting my Blood Witches who were in Ambush the whole game (dang beer), I felt in control of the whole game. I have been feeling a bit let down when it came to Skarre2, but not playing her into Trenchers or Primal Terrors seemed to be the ticket to making her actually feel like she is worth it. I was a bit worried going into that game because my opponent only had two 3 man units, a few solos, and a good variety of light and heavy warbeasts... But wow. The Gunslingers were great against light warbeasts with Heart Seeker.
I only got Black Spot off once, but it was quite nice. The Corruptor on the other hand... Where has it been all my (Mk.III) life?! Wow, being able to drop a 5" AOE when you kill something with auto hitting POW 10s made short work of the Blackfrost Shard (who happen to be unlucky enough to be standing near a non-Stealthed model. Future Sight was also quite powerful on a 'jack with a good ranged gun. And even my Seethers did great work with it.
Admonition and Counter Charge... Holy crap did that change how I view the Seethers with Skarre2. Man, overall it was a great experience with a warcaster I have been a bit dissapointed in.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Sept 24, 2018 10:06:32 GMT
Zaku consider dropping the Blood Witches to minimum to upgrade a Seether to Barathrum? He happens to bring his own shooting defense with Dig In, has solid hit and run with Drag Below and can be general nuisance, especially with Admonition available.
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Zaku
Junior Strategist
Posts: 224
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Post by Zaku on Sept 25, 2018 0:49:48 GMT
Zaku consider dropping the Blood Witches to minimum to upgrade a Seether to Barathrum? He happens to bring his own shooting defense with Dig In, has solid hit and run with Drag Below and can be general nuisance, especially with Admonition available. Great advice! I will have to see what I can do to make room in my case for him. My only worry is that I will only ever be able to use him in a few lists, since I don't ever plan on getting Terminus. It isn't quite as Focus efficient as the Seether, so with upkeep heavy Skarre2 that has me a bit worried. My other main Scourge warcasters are Skarre1 (using 4 Stalkers), Denny1 (will be using Nightmare), The Witch Coven (sometimes) and I plan to get Asohyxious1. The warcasters I will be using for Black Industries are Asphyxious3, Denny2 and The Witch Coven.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Sept 25, 2018 5:44:13 GMT
I played him a ton with Asphyxious 3 pre-themes and he's a ton of fun, much more durable than a standard Seether. As you say though, he's not a must and I can understand not wanting to shell out for him. But if you do feel the itch to get him, I'm confident that he will find his way into some Scourge lists.
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Zaku
Junior Strategist
Posts: 224
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Post by Zaku on Sept 25, 2018 10:56:56 GMT
I played him a ton with Asphyxious 3 pre-themes and he's a ton of fun, much more durable than a standard Seether. As you say though, he's not a must and I can understand not wanting to shell out for him. But if you do feel the itch to get him, I'm confident that he will find his way into some Scourge lists. Thanks! Yeah, I guess he will have to be proxied a few times to see if he is something I really need. He does look very interesting though.
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Zaku
Junior Strategist
Posts: 224
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Post by Zaku on Oct 1, 2018 2:10:06 GMT
Well, I tried out Agathia1 with my Scourge today... She was pretty fun. While she did not debuff as much as Deneghra1, or be as much of a toolbox as Skarre2 with them, I was not dissapointed.
She brought decent mobility with Ghost Walk and the feat, Crippling Grasp was enough to make harder targets regret getting in range of Dark Shroud (from the Blood Witch UA) and Crippling Grasp... Because my Cygnar opponent's Defender on his flank got brought from full health to destroyed with just a few Blood Witches (and UA) that made it in on their charges. I was shocked. The Blood Witches also got an amazing Ambush off, turn 2 killing Maxwell Finn who strayed too far to the edge of the board, a few Trencher Commandos, and killed/tied up the Trencher Cannon Crew while making themselves Incorporeal when we were playing the rulebook mission Search and Destroy (the one with five flags).
Army wide Stealth from Agathia1's feat, was absolute gold. Even with me facing off against Sloan and two Defenders in her battlegroup, the rest of the Trenchers were left floundering around while both my units of Satyxis Raiders closed in on them.
The Gunslingers still dissapoint me against Trenchers, but now that I have used them in other matchups, they are a staple in my Scourge lists.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Oct 1, 2018 6:03:50 GMT
Zaku I think you mean Parasite
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