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Post by phobus on May 31, 2018 16:11:35 GMT
So with the Crucible Guard release still a month away I’ve been looking at what Mercenary models work best in Crucible Guard so I can start on my painting early. Morley opens a lot of options with Ranking Officer and there are several units that are awesome when they have access to faction buffs and spells.
Personally I’ve got the Haldberdiers which work really well under Transmutation but I’ve also been considering Sam Machorne and the Devil Dogs. Run them with Baldwin and give them snipe. Suddenly their range 4 guns turn into a respectable range 8. 9 aoe 3 knockdown guns or Pow 14 with Dismantle can get some work done. With rust and feat turn you could be unleashing 9 boosted Rat 9 attack rolls with boosted pow 18 damage rolls against constructs (veteran leader, battle plans, and prey). That could kill 2-3 heavies easily.
What’s your thoughts? Are there any units that you all are excited about?
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Post by fallenexile on Jun 1, 2018 3:28:10 GMT
Forge Guard.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jun 1, 2018 11:23:14 GMT
I would give Press Gangers a go. Crucible lacks an AD unit, and Press Gangers could help claim board space.
Syvestro is the obvious choice of caster because of Transmute, the Press Gangers get to def 15, and even though they already have tough they can get no KD from 'The Good Stuff'
Offensively they go up to mat 7 p&S 15 with Gang, Fortemorphic Elixir and Transmute (with pathfinder), and then have a 4+ tough from the mini-feat
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Post by Trollock on Jun 2, 2018 20:50:25 GMT
Halbs, Forge Guards, Pressgangers and Lynus and Edrea (obly with Lukas obviously) are the only ones i have ever really considered. Devildogs seem cute as you say, so that will be fun testing out.
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Post by potato on Jun 27, 2018 15:11:16 GMT
If you want to build a gunline with di Moray I would take Lynus and Edrea, being able to doubly heal him on top of removing clouds is great for such a low cost.
Otherwose though, you will probably want Forgeguard? With all the debuffs available to the faction, even 2-3 FGs remain a threat to most heavies.
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Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
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Post by Juris on Jun 27, 2018 21:07:08 GMT
If you want to build a gunline with di Moray I would take Lynus and Edrea, being able to doubly heal him on top of removing clouds is great for such a low cost. Otherwose though, you will probably want Forgeguard? With all the debuffs available to the faction, even 2-3 FGs remain a threat to most heavies. You can also take a Retaliator to remove clouds. But I would take Lynus and Edrea anyway (all the healing is good). If only Gibbs healed friendly models...
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Post by danfromchicago on Jun 27, 2018 21:38:55 GMT
I want to try Thorn Gun Mages, especially if I've got a Retaliator in the list. Oil plus POW 14 fire attacks seems good
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Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
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Post by Juris on Jun 27, 2018 21:45:11 GMT
I want to try Thorn Gun Mages, especially if I've got a Retaliator in the list. Oil plus POW 14 fire attacks seems good CGI are just better at that though.
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Post by danfromchicago on Jun 28, 2018 1:39:14 GMT
I want to try Thorn Gun Mages, especially if I've got a Retaliator in the list. Oil plus POW 14 fire attacks seems good CGI are just better at that though. When you want an offensive option for Morray though ...
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Post by Trollock on Jun 28, 2018 6:49:05 GMT
CGI are just better at that though. When you want an offensive option for Morray though ... As for the damage output, they seem OK. You get 3 POW 14s for 9 points, so that is 1 POW 14 for 3 pointsOr you can do 6 POW 10s for 9 points so that is 1 POW 10 for 1.5 pointsIf you use CGI (maxed unit, with UA) You get 4 POW 14 for 19 points (one is POW 13 if you do 3x3 man CRAs and 1x2 man CRA) so that is 1 POW 14 for 4.75 pointsYou get 11 POW 11s for 19 points, so that is 1 POW 11 for 1.72 points (so more POW, but less RAT and more expansive) One turn though, you could potentially aim the CGI to get twice the above value, but Thorn gunmages seems like a safer bet tbh. I was a bit surprised...
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jun 28, 2018 10:45:29 GMT
When you want an offensive option for Morray though ... As for the damage output, they seem OK. You get 3 POW 14s for 9 points, so that is 1 POW 14 for 3 pointsOr you can do 6 POW 10s for 9 points so that is 1 POW 10 for 1.5 pointsIf you use CGI (maxed unit, with UA) You get 4 POW 14 for 19 points (one is POW 13 if you do 3x3 man CRAs and 1x2 man CRA) so that is 1 POW 14 for 4.75 pointsYou get 11 POW 11s for 19 points, so that is 1 POW 11 for 1.72 points (so more POW, but less RAT and more expansive) One turn though, you could potentially aim the CGI to get twice the above value, but Thorn gunmages seems like a safer bet tbh. I was a bit surprised... One thing to consider is that Crucible Guard Infantry count towards free points in Magnum Opus, whereas Thorn Mages without Morely do not. It's not insurmountable, but definitely squeezes that 15 point margin between mandatory warjack points and hitting 60 points for 3 free things.
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Post by danfromchicago on Jun 28, 2018 14:33:58 GMT
The free solo is a cost for sure. And to be clear, I would not run this combo with anyone other than Lukas.
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Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
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Post by Juris on Jun 28, 2018 16:41:50 GMT
CGI are just better at that though. When you want an offensive option for Morray though ... Morray doesn't make them any better at what they do, so why attach him to them? Blythe and Bull if you want an offensive option for him. Bring Lynus and Edrea if you're playing with Lukas. Bring Forge Guard if you want the best possible offensive option with him. Or bring Steelhead Halberdiers (far better than bringing Thorn Gun Mages). Edit: misunderstood your original post. Morely doesn't make gun mages better at their job. If you want an offensive option attached to Morely for Lukas di Morray, bring any of the other options I mentioned. Attaching a shooting unit to Morely seems almost universally like a bad idea.
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Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
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Post by Juris on Jun 28, 2018 16:49:36 GMT
When you want an offensive option for Morray though ... As for the damage output, they seem OK. You get 3 POW 14s for 9 points, so that is 1 POW 14 for 3 pointsOr you can do 6 POW 10s for 9 points so that is 1 POW 10 for 1.5 pointsIf you use CGI (maxed unit, with UA) You get 4 POW 14 for 19 points (one is POW 13 if you do 3x3 man CRAs and 1x2 man CRA) so that is 1 POW 14 for 4.75 pointsYou get 11 POW 11s for 19 points, so that is 1 POW 11 for 1.72 points (so more POW, but less RAT and more expansive) One turn though, you could potentially aim the CGI to get twice the above value, but Thorn gunmages seems like a safer bet tbh. I was a bit surprised... Your analysis is incomplete. For one, if you're attaching Dr. Morely, the unit costs 13 points, so the output per point analysis is artificially low. Perhaps you don't attach Morely, fine. You are leaving out the greater threat range of the CGI, the verstatility of their shooting (you can use Crit-Dispel and magical shots when you need to), and the fact that they can be much more accurate with CRAs. Also, Thorn Gun Mages are ARM11 single wound models; lose a single model (which is easy to do), and you lose 2 of those shots. a Min unit of CGI costs 9 points (same as a unit of Thorn Gun Mages), gives you twice as many bodies, and gives you greater threat range, greater versatility, with only slightly less potential damage output against an oiled target at certain armor values; for instance, 6 boosted POW11's is better than 3 boosted POW14's against ARM15 (36 damage versus 27 damage). There's no real compelling reason to take Thorn Gun Mages over CGI, unless you specifically want their Thunderbolt shots.
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Post by phobus on Jun 28, 2018 21:33:04 GMT
It’s true that the buffs Morley grants benefit melee units best. That Crucible Guard doesn’t have many in faction melee options outside of Assault Troopers means we’ll often use Morley with halbadiers or similar to fill in that hole. However, if you run a melee unit with him you can’t get much use out of his heal ability.
Running Morley with TGM or similar let’s you get some offensive use out of those points while Morley is able to heal models (such as a juicing Lukas or one of the troopers recently revived by Syvestro). They might not be quite as potent as some of the in faction alternatives but it’s an alternative to to chucking 9 points to a Morley/ Lynus and Edrea heal unit, especially since Morley does most of the healing anyways.
Thorn Gun Mages have some nifty abilities, are accurate and can benefit from oil if you’re going for the CGI retaliator combo. I think they could work and am curious how they end up playing. I’m also interested in the artillary options in Mercs, especially the Steelhead ones spoiled at Lock and Load. That could be an interesting option as well, especially since they would get the reposition 3 from Magnum Opus.
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