faelin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 121
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Post by faelin on May 26, 2018 23:50:35 GMT
What are you dropping to kill Kraye Jack spam? Do you try trading up as Amon? Dropping Reznik to deny focus allocation? Eating the alpha with Durst and then using cheaper jacks and choir to overwhelm the more expensive Cygnar counter-parts?
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Hashmal
Junior Strategist
Posts: 557
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Post by Hashmal on May 27, 2018 1:08:01 GMT
Definition of the list would help a lot. What Jack's?
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faelin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 121
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Post by faelin on May 27, 2018 1:37:39 GMT
Im not sure the exact list, but this is an approximation: Kraye Squire Ironclad x3 Centurian x2 Hammersmith x1 minuteman
Juniorx1 Charger
mechanics min Arlen
The third Ironclad might be a second hammersmith. But this should be in the general ballpark.
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Post by macdaddy on May 27, 2018 3:15:26 GMT
Im not sure the exact list, but this is an approximation: Kraye Squire Ironclad x3 Centurian x2 Hammersmith x1 minuteman Juniorx1 Charger mechanics min Arlen The third Ironclad might be a second hammersmith. But this should be in the general ballpark. EI is a potential solution. Errants are a great screen and can blunt the alpha, follow up with knights E should should wreck some heavies. There’s always the Amon solution, or Harbinger.
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Post by Gaston on May 27, 2018 3:32:05 GMT
I would argue that Centurian spam the likes of which Anthony Gibbs plays (x4) coupled with the non-charge ability would significantly blunt the power of the weaponmasters in EI.
Also with Repo 5 they can actually be out of walk/swing range too.
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Post by macdaddy on May 27, 2018 3:50:22 GMT
I would argue that Centurian spam the likes of which Anthony Gibbs plays (x4) coupled with the non-charge ability would significantly blunt the power of the weaponmasters in EI. Also with Repo 5 they can actually be out of walk/swing range too. That’s fair, centurions and polarity field are an issue. But a caster like vinny or Thyra can potential deliver thier army through that. Vinny with the Feat and true path, Thyra with her feat. SoD makes not charging less of a bad time. I think Amon or Harby is the best answer, but I do think there’s potential there with EI. Jam with errants, follow up very close with knights E, just play the slowly grind your weaponmaster to them game. If you are not playing at a tourney the CiD stuff has potential as well. Threatening 10” walking with desperate pace and a typical SPD buff. Cinerators can also mitigate polarity field with Vengence and such, I think the tools are there, it’s just a matter of working it out. Repo 5 and polarity field is obnoxious though.
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Hashmal
Junior Strategist
Posts: 557
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Post by Hashmal on May 27, 2018 18:15:13 GMT
For the list you posted, EI is a fine bet. If you fear that Centurion spam is more likely, it won't work. I have seen that game and it is not pretty for the Protectorate player.
What does work is a good old fashioned gunline. I recommend Sevy1. Feat can drag a jack or two out of CTRL if they're not careful. You focus on the ones in CTRL at that point. Shoot until you cripple movement, cortex, or spear arm, then move on to the next. Kraye needs to charge as much as he prevents you from doing it. Taking his movement out limits threat to a walking 6", which more manageable than a charging 14".
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kaernak
Junior Strategist
Either pray to Menoth or feel his fury. You'll burn either way.
Posts: 172
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Post by kaernak on May 29, 2018 13:02:02 GMT
I do not see how Amon wins this game unless you trade extremely efficiently. I will say this as a guy who is still playing Amon in his pairing and you can pry synergy from my cold dead hands. I also say this as a guy who plays Kraye. The movement shenanigans get intense and losing that charge on centurions can sometimes be a big speed bump that loses games.
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chuggyg
Junior Strategist
Posts: 474
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Post by chuggyg on May 29, 2018 17:03:12 GMT
I'd focus on preventing the charge, myself. High reclaimer cloud wall?
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chuggyg
Junior Strategist
Posts: 474
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Post by chuggyg on May 29, 2018 17:59:15 GMT
Looking as his list specifically, he's really, really lacking on the guns front. You could try the following list (which is my go-to Thyra) or something similar. Change the 'stop him charging' condition to a 'make his charges worthless' with the TFG. conflictchamber.com/#c2201b_-0c3K3N1X7j3Sf73s3U3t3z3z3B2_2M2M2J2J2JProtectorate Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Guardians of the Temple [Thyra 1] Thyra, Flame of Sorrow [+29] - Blood of Martyrs [16] - Guardian [15] Anastasia di Bray [3] Nicia, Tear of Vengeance [0(5)] Pyrrhus, Flameguard Hero [0(5)] Reclaimer Gatekeeper [3] - Sanctifier [14] Vassal Mechanik [1] Vassal of Menoth [3] Vassal of Menoth [3] Wrack [1] Choir of Menoth (min) [4] Daughters of the Flame [10] Daughters of the Flame [10] Temple Flameguard (min) [7] Temple Flameguard (min) [7] Temple Flameguard (min) [7] Use each unit of TFG to form a bulkhead in front of your warjacks and advance forward. Stranglehold frequently. I wouldn't be too concerned with shield wall, you're good to run/charge with the TFG as long as you keep them b2b for the tough.
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Hashmal
Junior Strategist
Posts: 557
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Post by Hashmal on May 29, 2018 18:52:16 GMT
I think that list might work for the two Centurion variant posted above. For the multiple Centurion look, it's not going to work. Guardians just doesn't have the oomph to crack that much armor and needs charges to get to the point where it can.
As I mentioned above, it highly depends on what you're running into. I can recommend a good generalist one that also covers the Sloan pair well. Unfortunately, it needs Sevy0.
Basically,
Kreoss1 -Reckoner -Reckoner Sevy 0 -Redeemer -Redeemer Tristan 1 -Redeemer -Redeemer
Idrians (max) + CA Choir (max) Whatever support fits
The Feat is used as an accuracy fixer and sets you up to take 2 'jacks with guns. Idrians just screen against charges.
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chuggyg
Junior Strategist
Posts: 474
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Post by chuggyg on May 29, 2018 19:18:43 GMT
The centurion's armor isn't THAT high (21 with the shield), and my list above has BOM that can swing at POW 22, Sanctifier can Swing at pow 22 as well, and the Guardian tops out at... Pow 22! The only one that isn't killing a centurion with room to spare is the Guardian, and only because he gets one less attack. If he's bringing a Junior warcaster for arcane shield, Nicia and/or the ambushing daughters should be able to track it down pretty quickly.
The only real concern is getting into melee in the first place, but with so many bodies on the field you should be able to pin them in.
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Hashmal
Junior Strategist
Posts: 557
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Post by Hashmal on May 29, 2018 19:27:53 GMT
It's that latter line that's the problem. You can't pin them in. Repo 5" is a hell of a drug. And if clearing becomes an issue, Trample + Repo 5" in Polarity Shield will still keep you at bay.
Centurions just don't care about POW 10 free strikes.
I speak from experience on this one. It doesn't work out like you'd think and there is no way that you are getting all three of your Warjacks onto his cherry unless he has seriously misplayed his army. The four Centurion look sports three Chargers. Those plus Kraye give you eight boostable shots to clear lanes to a 'jack. A&H allow him to tag you with Fire Beacon through Passage. And Holt himself gives two more lane-clearing shots. With a 14" threat range, you're going to get at least one of your 'jacks charged. And asking three of your heavies to take on four of his in melee when he out-threats you so significantly is an awful lot.
Like I said, though, for the originally posted list it will work fine. Plenty of other targets to charge. Controlling two Centurions is much easier than controlling four.
Edit: I should also add that if the pair is Sloan 5x5, as it very well could be, that's probably what's being dropped against you anyways. Thyra is a risky bid against Cygnar unless you know for sure that they're not threatening any serious stealth denial from range.
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Post by correlion on May 30, 2018 10:17:29 GMT
War Room Army
Protectorate of Menoth - Amon tourney
Theme: The Creator's Might 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
High Allegiant Amon Ad-Raza - WJ: +29 - Hierophant - PC: 0 - Dervish - PC: 7 (Battlegroup Points Used: 7) - Dervish - PC: 7 (Battlegroup Points Used: 7) - Sanctifier - PC: 14 (Battlegroup Points Used: 14) - Indictor - PC: 15 (Battlegroup Points Used: 1) - Vigilant - PC: 9 - Dervish - PC: 7 - Templar - PC: 15 - Dervish - PC: 7 - Dervish - PC: 7
The Covenant of Menoth - PC: 0 Vassal of Menoth - PC: 0 Vassal of Menoth - PC: 3 Wrack - PC: 1 Vassal Mechanik - PC: 1 Anastasia di Bray - PC: 3
Choir of Menoth - Leader & 3 Grunts: 4 Choir of Menoth - Leader & 3 Grunts: 4
THEME: The Creator's Might --- Iv'e been able to win vs Kraye during our local tournament with this
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