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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on May 30, 2018 8:07:44 GMT
If only a Haley 3 list had a way of reducing an enemies defence, that might make Aiyana more reliable...
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Post by cygnarstronk on May 30, 2018 12:40:36 GMT
That only works with H3. And even then, applying that buff isn't that easy. Sure, H3 will make her more reliable, but we were talking about siege2 earlier
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on May 30, 2018 13:09:42 GMT
That only works with H3. And even then, applying that buff isn't that easy. Sure, H3 will make her more reliable, but we were talking about siege2 earlier It's pretty easy to place an echo within 5" of the target...
Gravediggers in general has Quake form the Blockhouse, or 3 dice crit knockdown from Express Teams, or you could take an Avenger to use his Quake gun.
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Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
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Post by Juris on May 30, 2018 14:27:49 GMT
If you rely on something, then I feel it needs to be around a 75% or higher to happen, otherwise it is inherently unreliable. Aiyannas magic 7 is very unreliable as something to rely on unless it is being used primarily for anti colossal duty, but then questions of value for cost comes in. Also, with a 10" range then the chances of losing aiyanna on that turn are extremely high if your opponent is trying to win the game. Thank you, exactly what I think. After a kiss attempt, ayana is very probably dead. But what troubles me the most is that usually, if I plan on kissing a model, well then it's part of my core strategy. If I miss then the whole strategy is ruined. I was playing against skarre3, had her in range of a lot of my guns but needed the kiss to really bring her down. I activate ayana, miss DEF12, assassination botched. Duh, that's 12 wasted points for sure. Aiyana is often dug in after kissing something, sometimes with Shield Guards around, sometimes with a Quick Draw shot, usually with other models in the way, so she doesn't always die (usually survives). If you are getting so little value out of Aiyana I think it's a personal problem, not an Aiyana problem. I'll point out again that Sigil of Power is often critical in a MU. Kiss of Lyliss is sometimes critical and often reliable (hard targets are usually DEF12 or less), and sometimes I just don't need them in a list (like all models), but they can still contribute by killing things, scoring, contesting, etc. Arguing that she is bad because "in that one game I rolled a 4 when I needed a 5" is the epitome of bad logic.
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Post by jagius021 on May 30, 2018 14:30:49 GMT
Or even running an ironclad up. Tremor that heavy nearby your target. Tremor your own guys. Tremor everyone. Tremor people named Trevor for extra value.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on May 30, 2018 14:35:00 GMT
Can everyone please stop offering perfectly reasonable ways to fix Aiyana's magic stat of 7, we want it good and salty in here
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Post by octaviusmaximus on May 30, 2018 14:35:07 GMT
That only works with H3. And even then, applying that buff isn't that easy. Sure, H3 will make her more reliable, but we were talking about siege2 earlier It's pretty easy to place an echo within 5" of the target...
Gravediggers in general has Quake form the Blockhouse, or 3 dice crit knockdown from Express Teams, or you could take an Avenger to use his Quake gun.
Quake from the blockhouse?! I thought we were past talking about atrocious models. we were talking about Gravediggers, not strictly Haley 3 diggers. I use Aiyana with my current Haley 3 list because the synergy of her with Grenadiers is too good to pass up but taking her with someone like Siege 2 is far more of a dicey proposition.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on May 30, 2018 14:38:27 GMT
It's pretty easy to place an echo within 5" of the target...
Gravediggers in general has Quake form the Blockhouse, or 3 dice crit knockdown from Express Teams, or you could take an Avenger to use his Quake gun.
Quake from the blockhouse?! I thought we were past talking about atrocious models. we were talking about Gravediggers, not strictly Haley 3 diggers. I use Aiyana with my current Haley 3 list because the synergy of her with Grenadiers is too good to pass up but taking her with someone like Siege 2 is far more of a dicey proposition. At least it's getting +2" to deployment... it is still kinda sad though
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Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
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Post by Juris on May 30, 2018 15:52:45 GMT
It's pretty easy to place an echo within 5" of the target...
Gravediggers in general has Quake form the Blockhouse, or 3 dice crit knockdown from Express Teams, or you could take an Avenger to use his Quake gun.
Quake from the blockhouse?! I thought we were past talking about atrocious models. we were talking about Gravediggers, not strictly Haley 3 diggers. I use Aiyana with my current Haley 3 list because the synergy of her with Grenadiers is too good to pass up but taking her with someone like Siege 2 is far more of a dicey proposition. You call it a dicey proposition. I've played at least 71 games with a Siege2 list that includes Aiyana and as a result of that experience I have no intention of removing her. I call it a good idea.
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xadmar
Junior Strategist
Posts: 173
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Post by xadmar on May 30, 2018 19:44:23 GMT
You could pick up Elish for the puppet strings. 17 point package!
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Post by octaviusmaximus on May 30, 2018 22:59:50 GMT
Quake from the blockhouse?! I thought we were past talking about atrocious models. we were talking about Gravediggers, not strictly Haley 3 diggers. I use Aiyana with my current Haley 3 list because the synergy of her with Grenadiers is too good to pass up but taking her with someone like Siege 2 is far more of a dicey proposition. You call it a dicey proposition. I've played at least 71 games with a Siege2 list that includes Aiyana and as a result of that experience I have no intention of removing her. I call it a good idea. Cool, but if others find it dicey and the maths says it's dicey against the targets they want aiyana against, then I dont know what to tell you.
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Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
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Post by Juris on May 30, 2018 23:49:06 GMT
You call it a dicey proposition. I've played at least 71 games with a Siege2 list that includes Aiyana and as a result of that experience I have no intention of removing her. I call it a good idea. Cool, but if others find it dicey and the maths says it's dicey against the targets they want aiyana against, then I dont know what to tell you. You don't need to tell me anything. I don't need your validation to keep playing Aiyana in my Siege2 list. The only reason I am posting in this thread is to provide my perspective on Aiyana based on extensive table time so that other players who have not played with her and are considering her value in a Siege2 list have actual reasoned advice rather than "I tried to hit a Def12 model with Kiss of Lyliss and missed, hot garbage!". This is a dice game. Aiyana has to roll dice to apply one of her two valuable effects. But again, you're ignoring a major part of Aiyana's value. The threat of Kiss of Lyliss is huge. Additionally, you don't need to roll to hit to give Sigil of Power to a model/unit, and that wins games by itself. I've said all there is to say on this topic, and at this point it's just getting repetitive.
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Post by octaviusmaximus on May 31, 2018 0:38:45 GMT
Cool, but if others find it dicey and the maths says it's dicey against the targets they want aiyana against, then I dont know what to tell you. You don't need to tell me anything. I don't need your validation to keep playing Aiyana in my Siege2 list. The only reason I am posting in this thread is to provide my perspective on Aiyana based on extensive table time so that other players who have not played with her and are considering her value in a Siege2 list have actual reasoned advice rather than "I tried to hit a Def12 model with Kiss of Lyliss and missed, hot garbage!". This is a dice game. Aiyana has to roll dice to apply one of her two valuable effects. But again, you're ignoring a major part of Aiyana's value. The threat of Kiss of Lyliss is huge. Additionally, you don't need to roll to hit to give Sigil of Power to a model/unit, and that wins games by itself. I've said all there is to say on this topic, and at this point it's just getting repetitive. If the threat of Aiyana hitting is of huge value to you, the threat of aiyana missing is of a huge detriment. Sigil of power entirely depends on matchups. With Siege himself and Triumph you can get away with not bringing magic weapons against a lot of matchups.
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Post by jagius021 on May 31, 2018 1:51:35 GMT
You don't seem to understand what is meant by the value of the threat. People play around various pieces, factoring into how they position and prioritize. So if you are staring down the counter to your high armor model, you try to adjust your strat against it. If it's a bigger threat than reality, there is value in the overcompensating the opponent is doing. Example: I had an opponent load up 3 heavies with focus to deal with my Bronzebacks, when reliably 2 could have killed it. He also debuffed it first, so effectively putting out about 8 focus worth. As it turned out, 2 was plenty to kill it. But now he has a heavy that's all loaded up and nowhere to go. Because the Bronzeback is scary.
So her not hitting has no impact on the psychological effect she has on the board. That said, her impact might not be worth it to you, and that's okay.
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Post by octaviusmaximus on May 31, 2018 2:13:53 GMT
You don't seem to understand what is meant by the value of the threat. People play around various pieces, factoring into how they position and prioritize. So if you are staring down the counter to your high armor model, you try to adjust your strat against it. If it's a bigger threat than reality, there is value in the overcompensating the opponent is doing. Example: I had an opponent load up 3 heavies with focus to deal with my Bronzebacks, when reliably 2 could have killed it. He also debuffed it first, so effectively putting out about 8 focus worth. As it turned out, 2 was plenty to kill it. But now he has a heavy that's all loaded up and nowhere to go. Because the Bronzeback is scary. So her not hitting has no impact on the psychological effect she has on the board. That said, her impact might not be worth it to you, and that's okay. I understand the value of threat. But if the value of threat is something to be considered, then risk is also a factor. You need to pay the points on the knowledge of how risky it is for a piece to have its effect. If Aiyana was Magic 4 then rarely would people ever bother with her, for instance. Risk is very important in evaluating when you take pieces and it is just as relevant as on table threat.
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