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Post by mcdermott on Aug 7, 2018 7:37:09 GMT
For some reason I was under the impression the Orgoth homeland got wrecked to shit and thats a big part of WHY they came. Which would be a pretty decent method of explaining why they aren't the overpowering faction they were back during the occupation i guess.
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psyllus
Junior Strategist
Posts: 119
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Post by psyllus on Aug 7, 2018 8:45:47 GMT
I can confirm that Skorne were around from the start of mk1. I don't know if they were given a name... Skorne were mentioned by name in WM Prime MkI. They were in the Witchfire Trilogy, and predate WM.
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Post by gobber on Aug 7, 2018 11:28:50 GMT
Now, there is no knowledge on if the Orgoth had not moved their entire culture to Immoren or if they were just conquistadors. If they were conquistadors, that means they have cousins back from where they came from who haven't decided to cross the ocean for 2,000 years. That would indicate either a high level of superstition, a complete loss of ability to cross the ocean, or the Orgoth were locusts who leapt in to the ocean after consuming all that was available in the land they left.
But yeah, it seems that the Orgoth had some of the capabilities of how Skorne and Cryxian armies have soul reaving, storage, and burning as an energy source. The Doom Reaver's swords are Orgoth make, after all, aren't they?
PPS_Dougseacat Lanz is correct in that we haven't shown a map for Zu yet and that it is a ways south of Immoren, nor have we shown the continent that the Orgoth originated from, which is indeed west of Immoren. We haven't committed a cartographer to make Zu a mapped reality yet, though I expect that'll happen in due time. PPS_Dougseacat 02-22-2017, 10:27 AM In terms of the Orgoth homeland, that's another area where you should feel free to get creative and wild with your ideas, imagining a post Orgoth Empire region. For my part, I've always imagined that continent having new post-Orgoth successor kingdoms and its own internal politics and strife, perhaps almost a dark mirror to the Iron Kingdoms. I suspect they went through a significant dark age after the fall of the Orgoth Empire from which they might be starting to emerge. Most real-world major empires have left significant ripples and legacies as their culture affects the peoples who come after them and pick up the pieces. (Thinking back to Rome, the aftermath of Alexander the Great, the Mongols, and even the legacy of the British Empire, as well as numerous others.) I did want to mention, since the question arose somewhere else (perhaps another thread), that we have indeed firmly established the Orgoth as humans. So far as has been discovered, humanity exists on every continent thus far discovered on Caen. It's certainly possible other familiar races could also exist on other continents, though I'd suggest having elves in particular only exist on Immoren. Some fun could be had with some of the Dhunian races in terms of creating significant variations from their Immorese counterparts, due to the adaptability of some of those races. Trollkin in particular; worth noting in their legends they refer to themselves as the first intelligent race, and myths about the troll kings suggest they might have been far more pervasive as well. It's easy to imagine an ancient pre-historic world where tribal humanity and trollkin were scattered everywhere, with most of the other intelligent races arising subsequently in more localized pockets. PPS_Dougseacat 01-16-2017, 09:36 AM Yes, the Orgoth appear to believe in a creator god that is very likely Menoth by another name, before they turned to their "dark gods," which in occult circles are largely presumed to be infernals of some sort. Some Sul-Menites enjoy drawing parallels here to the Immorese who believe Menoth is their Creator but who have turned to praying to gods like the Twins. (Though as you'd expect, most Morrowans and even Thamarites would consider this an insulting and inaccurate comparison.) PPS_Dougseacat 03-30-2016, 12:44 PM It's possible they did just this with the Orgoth, though it also appears, given the nature of Orgoth occult practices and sacrificial rites, that the delivery of souls to infernals is less direct than is the case for gods. (There seems to be a good case to be made that the "Dark Gods" of the Orgoth were actually a society of infernals in direct competition with the ones who negotiate with the people of western Immoren.) This likely has to do with the cosmological nature of the relationship between Caen and Urcaen, and the fact that the infernals exist in some more remote region. PPS_Dougseacat 09-10-2014, 04:04 PM One of the conceits with a weapon like Pendrake's is that it's something of a "worn down", damaged, or faded Orgoth weapon. It might have been something more powerful and likely sinister at some point, but that magic no longer functions and all that remains is some minimal level of enchantment, such as what made the blade keep an edge better and avoid corroding, and whatever lingering magic remains is enough to allow it to affect incorporeal creatures. I'd generally advise that the stronger the magic, the more sinister and potentially dangerous it should be when it comes to Orgoth relics. Their magic was fueled rather heavily by blood and soul necromancy, which usually brings some unpleasantness with it. Their magic wasn't really suitable for a lot of more practical applications other than murdering things in new and horrifying ways. They didn't really have anything equivalent to mechanika with broader applications. PPS_Dougseacat 11-06-2013, 08:56 AM Souls do sometimes linger around, and these do indeed become malevolent undead spirits like ghosts or wraiths. It's not a particularly common situation, but hauntings and restless souls do exist in our setting. Usually there is some sort of blasphemy and/or extreme violence involved. There are specific types of lingering undead associated with the Orgoth. Two we have featured in old Monsternomicon entries are the Excruciator (basically a ghostly former Orgoth torturer) and the Deathless, which is a powerful Orgoth spirit (often a former ruler) that doesn't seem to know it's dead. The story the original poster is referring to involved a Deathless.
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Post by macdaddy on Aug 7, 2018 14:12:22 GMT
Now look at all that lore, look at how much the devs know about the setting. How in the actual heck does the community have so little information? even in IKRPG books (with lore nuggets) we still are only getting snapshots of all this.
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Post by Charistoph on Aug 7, 2018 14:47:31 GMT
Now look at all that lore, look at how much the devs know about the setting. How in the actual heck does the community have so little information? even in IKRPG books (with lore nuggets) we still are only getting snapshots of all this. Simply because, as was pointed out in the first quote, they haven't taken the time and energy TO fill them out, even to themselves. Since they are not filling them out (yet), we are allowed to be a little creative in our speculation. Even Seacat doesn't know why the Orgoth left their old lands and what happened to them (though, his opinion will carry more weight then others when they do go to flesh it out, obviously).
It's these types of unknowns in which new armies and sub-factions which go in to CID come from. So, yes, we could see elves in a Privateer CID (though, the likelihood is one of the more less likely then most of the avenues they could pursue with them).
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Post by MrHaystacks on Aug 7, 2018 15:21:39 GMT
I think when we get to the Legacy CID we could also get "generic themes". Not necessarily unrestricted, but much more open with maybe only 1 or 2 bonuses. Just something that makes playing out of theme not a losing battle.
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Post by gobber on Aug 7, 2018 15:29:12 GMT
I think when we get to the Legacy CID we could also get "generic themes". Not necessarily unrestricted, but much more open with maybe only 1 or 2 bonuses. Just something that makes playing out of theme not a losing battle. They've specifically said they won't do anything like this. Also that irregulars' openness wasn't healthy for the game and they wanted to avoid that going forward (hence upcoming merc non-character solos like the steelhead arcanist to bring up the competition).
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Post by jisidro on Aug 7, 2018 18:26:51 GMT
Legacy CID is bound to be a disappointment all-around if everyone starts listing models.
You can't do a proper CID across all factions with a couple of models each. I expect 2(?) groups of models to be tested and upgraded. I just don't know which groups they deem to need attention and that are not waiting for the theme to flesh out in cid fashion.
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skormedlover87
Junior Strategist
Desperately searching for days off to game...
Posts: 517
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Post by skormedlover87 on Aug 7, 2018 19:48:30 GMT
So what I got from that big, long Seacat quote was this.
Infernals=Orgoth. Maybe not an Orgoth "army" but they'll almost certainly be in there.
Excitement=Maximum
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Post by hocestbellum on Aug 7, 2018 19:57:36 GMT
Legacy CID is bound to be a disappointment all-around if everyone starts listing models. You can't do a proper CID across all factions with a couple of models each. I expect 2(?) groups of models to be tested and upgraded. I just don't know which groups they deem to need attention and that are not waiting for the theme to flesh out in cid fashion. I've heard about this Legacy CID a few times now; is this actually something that's happening? Have I missed an announcement somewhere?
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Post by jisidro on Aug 7, 2018 20:22:43 GMT
Legacy CID is bound to be a disappointment all-around if everyone starts listing models. You can't do a proper CID across all factions with a couple of models each. I expect 2(?) groups of models to be tested and upgraded. I just don't know which groups they deem to need attention and that are not waiting for the theme to flesh out in cid fashion. I've heard about this Legacy CID a few times now; is this actually something that's happening? Have I missed an announcement somewhere?
I heard about it here. Completely unconfirmed.
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Post by gobber on Aug 7, 2018 20:48:25 GMT
There is no legacy CID. They're just going to hit groups of legacy models here and there following their release cycle, which sounds like it's going to be more evenly distributed across the factions next year.
Will Pagani "What is the "Legacy CID"?" "Seems like an awful lot is being read into something that wasn't really said on a Dev Hangout!"
Chainattackjay's retelling of the dev chat:
"There was a 13 factions of Christmas planned, but it was too difficult for design and development. There will be smaller cid windows targeting 2-3 factions that can launch at conventions through the year. Everyone will still get models, just spaced out."
"The devs explicitly said today that as they do the models that would have been in the twelve factions of Christmas that they would look at legacy models that are associated with that model."
Pagani has mentioned that it's still going to follow new releases as CID "splash updates" of related legacy models (specifically, if they release a pirate model we could in theory still see some CID attention for pirates this year). Based on this I'd guess the greylord adjutant means khador's Wolves of Winter is probably on the near horizon, as is Convergence (clockatrice).
Player: So will, if I follow what has been said since the beginning of the weekend, there could still be a possibilities of a pirate model in a christmas cid and that would make you look at legacy models related to this new model. A bit like what happenes with sons of the tempest or the wolds like christmas. So even though not a lot is planned in the near future, there is a possibilities that the pirate theme force and modeks could be look at and be changed.
Pagani: That is correct on a conceptual level, yes... As stated above, if a splash model is a pirate and let’s us deal with that subset of models we can, but I would temper expectations at this point.
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skormedlover87
Junior Strategist
Desperately searching for days off to game...
Posts: 517
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Post by skormedlover87 on Aug 7, 2018 21:38:01 GMT
Does it bother anyone else that PP's operating strategy is to say "here's the plan going forward" (ie factions of Christmas, hardcover books for themes....) Then they almost immediately change their minds once a bump in the road is hit. It drives me up the wall. I've started to take each announcement as a 1 off that may or may not hold water going forward.
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Post by mydnight on Aug 7, 2018 22:32:07 GMT
Does it bother anyone else that PP's operating strategy is to say "here's the plan going forward" (ie factions of Christmas, hardcover books for themes....) Then they almost immediately change their minds once a bump in the road is hit. It drives me up the wall. I've started to take each announcement as a 1 off that may or may not hold water going forward. Unfortunately PP has gone against their word/plan many times. We just have to be content that the CiD process even exists (it took a whole failed MKIII launch to convince them).
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Post by josephkerr on Aug 7, 2018 22:39:58 GMT
Does it bother anyone else that PP's operating strategy is to say "here's the plan going forward" (ie factions of Christmas, hardcover books for themes....) Then they almost immediately change their minds once a bump in the road is hit. It drives me up the wall. I've started to take each announcement as a 1 off that may or may not hold water going forward. Not really. If they didn’t correct themselves, every faction would have like 2 themes and the new ones wouldn’t just be competitive, they’d be that much better against factions missing half their own themes. I’d rather they change ships midstream. I feel like the game is at it’s most balanced in Mk3, and a lot of that has been changing their minds.
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