Choco
Junior Strategist
Gorten, best feet in the game.
Posts: 571
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Post by Choco on May 2, 2018 19:50:46 GMT
EDIT: I cut out the stuff that doesn't pertain to Mercs and kept what we can use.
In case you missed it, the Exemplar CID dropped today.
Exemplar Cinerator Officer: The Cinerator Officer brings a plethora of utility options to the Cinerators. Through his Shield Wall order, the Cinerator can become a very durable multi-would unit. Combined with the other defensive abiltiies of the protectorate arsenal this unit can become very difficult to dislodge from scenario zones. With Litany of Fire the unit picks up the ability to remove enemy upkeep spells. Take Down is useful ability that brings a remove from play option to the Exemplar forces.
Things to test: The Cinerator Officer offers a lot of new options to the unit. Are these options useful? Do you see them covering weaknesses of the unit or army?
Exemplar Bastions: Bastions were not performing at the level we intended. Making them a significantly cheaper option will allow them to see time on the table.
Cost 8/13.
CMD 8.
Exemplar Cinerators: Cinerators are picking up a unit attachment during this CID. We want to see how that interacts with them before we make any further changes than a slight point decrease.
Cost 9/15.
CMD 8.
Exemplar Errants & Exemplar Errant Officer & Standard: Adding pathfinder to the unit allows us to modify Elias Gade's role in the army. Removing Assault, a rule which was a little awkward on Exemplar Errants, and returning Quick Work from the previous edition should up the power level of this unit rather substantially.
Gain Pathfinder XICONX.
Change the second line of Purity to the following:
Enemy upkeep spells and animi on this unit immediately expire.
Cut Tactics: Assault XICONX.
Gain Tactics: Quick Work:
Tactics: Quick Work - Models in this unit gain Quick Work. (When a model with Quick Work destroys one or more enemy models with a melee attack during its Combat Action, immediately after the attack is resolved the model with Quick Work can make one basic ranged attack.)
Knights Exemplar, Knights Exemplar Officer, and Exemplar Vengers are also part of this CID. They currently do not have any changes.
*Note: Cut the theme forces part as that has nothing to do with Mercs.
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Choco
Junior Strategist
Gorten, best feet in the game.
Posts: 571
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Post by Choco on May 2, 2018 19:52:00 GMT
My first impression from a Merc standpoint, I want to run at least one unit of Cinerators with Ashlynn now. That wall of meat with Shield Wall, Quicken, Pathfinder and Repo: 3 seems exceptionally strong.
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on May 2, 2018 23:21:54 GMT
sum folks have a funky definition of exceptionally strong+~
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Post by borderprince on May 3, 2018 5:38:52 GMT
First reaction is that if Gravus goes down to 8 points, the pure merc cavalry solos really, really, really need a points drop.
As for the units, Cinerators might have a role now? I'm not convinced - even Ashlynn can only make them move as fast as MoW Shocktroopers while in Shieldwall, MoW are more survivable with potential for speed buffs beyond that (and a longer melee range). Not sure they will be playing to Ashlynn's strengths. Maybe with Crosse2? Using the Shield Wall to get to ARM24 is very good against shooting and pretty solid against lots of melee. Still probably too slow though, especially as very high ARM might stop Vengeance from coming into play. And as an anti-shooting option, they're still competing with Trenchers and their smoke.
Errants look like a bit of a wash from a merc standpoint. They already get pathfinder in theme, so that change doesn't affect us. Quickwork can be better than assault if you're running them against single wound infantry, but you're not guaranteed two attacks in the turn, unlike assault.
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Post by fallenexile on May 3, 2018 6:35:46 GMT
So the only things being tested that we can even use in an LR list at the moment are Bastions, Cinerators (with their new UA), and Errants. Of those chamges, only the Cinerator brings any meaningful changes to an LR list.
Bastions being cheaper doesn't make them more appealing to LR as we need more FA for our units, not cheaper units. Errants gaining pathfinder is moot in LR and Quick Work vs Assault are more or less the same, situationally.
Cinerators gaining Shield Wall, a dispell, and Take Down, though, doesn't sound terrible.
Am I missing anything?
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Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
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Post by Xintas on May 3, 2018 15:21:39 GMT
Bastions being cheaper and getting a shift away from the Cinerators in use is a good decision, but it doesn't help us. The errants change is so meaningless for us it almost seems intentional.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on May 3, 2018 15:33:39 GMT
I know they have not changed this CID, but I think maybe a unit of Knight Exemplars and a unit of Flame Bringers with Ashlynn could be pretty neat, Quicken makes the Flame Bringers threat stupidly far, and the Knights bring some much needed armour cracking to Resistance.
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Choco
Junior Strategist
Gorten, best feet in the game.
Posts: 571
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Post by Choco on May 3, 2018 15:38:26 GMT
I know they have not changed this CID, but I think maybe a unit of Knight Exemplars and a unit of Flame Bringers with Ashlynn could be pretty neat, Quicken makes the Flame Bringers threat stupidly far, and the Knights bring some much needed armour cracking to Resistance. I've been running her as my anti-infantry list with Flame Bringers and Daughters. Talk about making your opponent think too much on the feat turn!
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Choco
Junior Strategist
Gorten, best feet in the game.
Posts: 571
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Post by Choco on May 3, 2018 15:50:57 GMT
I went and edited the original post to just have the parts that pertain to us.
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Zeykk
Junior Strategist
Posts: 135
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Post by Zeykk on May 3, 2018 16:19:21 GMT
Quick Work on Errants is nice. However, I still won't consider Errants unless the go to a 1" melee range.
Cinerators are still slow; and rely too much on shield wall to get where they want to be (not when you want it to happen in my experience) for my liking. Repo 3 is nice, yes Quicken helps. But Spd 4 and 5 boxes. You're giving up a lot to go Protectorate instead of Cygnar to begin with. What do you take with them? Bastions: Spd 4 and die fast. Errants, see comment above. Cleansers: want Quicken instead for the insane assault spray threat. It goes on, but there are either not enough bodies at that point that you have to consider bringing Devil Dogs or more 'jacks. Maybe not a bad thing, but Trencher/Stormblades is just too consistent.
Outside of Ashlynn, I'm not convinced the other casters available prefer The Resistance over Irregulars.
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Post by fallenexile on May 3, 2018 16:48:25 GMT
Outside of Ashlynn, I'm not convinced the other casters available prefer The Resistance over Irregulars. I hear Gastone likes Zealots. Maybe them and Cinerators for him?
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Zeykk
Junior Strategist
Posts: 135
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Post by Zeykk on May 3, 2018 17:10:28 GMT
I hear Gastone likes Zealots. Maybe them and Cinerators for him? Perhaps he does? I'd rather see proof than hearsay, unless your use of hear was more colloquial than anything, but I digress. I just haven't seen any games with Crosse or been regaled with stories of his use in tournaments to know much about him and his success/failure outside of my own use. I don't have Zealots so I've never done it. I've had most of my success with Crosse in Irregulars or in Resistance with double Lances. My games have shown me more success in Irregulars. However, I'd be more inclined to favor my Forge Guard over Cinerators. Though even then I've had a love/hate relationship with them with him because of the same problems that Cinerators have, low speed. Maybe pathfinder in theme helps? But I run so much infantry with Crosse already, medium bases might complicate that. And by going Resistance, I lose out on the ability to take Idrians which have been phenomenal with Crosse so far. No saying you're wrong, just that I haven't seen your side. I used Bastions and Cinerators for a bit pre CID because I love the models, but they left me as disappointed as Forge Guard do, but at least they don't get in the way of my warjacks as easily. I will be trying them out as I like the models, but I won't hold my breath.
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Choco
Junior Strategist
Gorten, best feet in the game.
Posts: 571
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Post by Choco on May 3, 2018 17:32:35 GMT
I hear Gastone likes Zealots. Maybe them and Cinerators for him? Perhaps he does? I'd rather see proof than hearsay, unless your use of hear was more colloquial than anything, but I digress. I just haven't seen any games with Crosse or been regaled with stories of his use in tournaments to know much about him and his success/failure outside of my own use. I don't have Zealots so I've never done it. I've had most of my success with Crosse in Irregulars or in Resistance with double Lances. My games have shown me more success in Irregulars. However, I'd be more inclined to favor my Forge Guard over Cinerators. Though even then I've had a love/hate relationship with them with him because of the same problems that Cinerators have, low speed. Maybe pathfinder in theme helps? But I run so much infantry with Crosse already, medium bases might complicate that. And by going Resistance, I lose out on the ability to take Idrians which have been phenomenal with Crosse so far. No saying you're wrong, just that I haven't seen your side. I used Bastions and Cinerators for a bit pre CID because I love the models, but they left me as disappointed as Forge Guard do, but at least they don't get in the way of my warjacks as easily. I will be trying them out as I like the models, but I won't hold my breath. Depending on the meta, Zealots are a very popular option because you get to double dip on their souls. You toss shield guard on them and when the time is right you can pop the Monolith Bearer's mini feat to bring back the models that have been killed so far. Thus you get their souls twice. It's a silly interaction that I need to try out some time.
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Zeykk
Junior Strategist
Posts: 135
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Post by Zeykk on May 3, 2018 18:03:56 GMT
I'm aware of the interaction and the theory behind it. I'm just not convinced it's worth it on the table over other, potentially better options.
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on May 3, 2018 19:30:02 GMT
i tride gastone with zealots last week. it was crap! they dont do anything! you cant have stuff that dont do anything now!
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