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Post by redsololobo on Apr 29, 2018 16:10:53 GMT
Hey guys, as the title states, I finally got two games in. One last week against 1Stryker in a Mangled Metal battle and one this past Saturday against Skorn in Steam Roller.
My MM list was pretty simple - Kraye w/ 6x Chargers. The basic overview of the battle was my opponent chasing me around the table till I eventually whittled down his force. What did I learn? There is a huuuge emphasis on melee in this game. And, since I couldn't really get close to my opponent I could sense tournament battles i.e. SR would be difficult.
Next battle...Steam Roller. We jumped up to 50pts w/ theme. My list was the same, but with the addition of 2x Ironclads, Squire, and Versh.
T1: Skorn opponent went first and rushed to the objectives. I took out his saber tooth dragoon that rushed towards the center.
T2: He consolidated further into the objectives with his troops and moved the cats towards the center for a rush set up. I focus on shooting his multi wound infantry, but I can only kill so many since they keep getting revived via warlock special ability and tough AoE support bubble. I move one of my Ironclads into combat and one for a charge next turn. Obviously, he is killing me in scenario points.
T3: He moves his cats via 5" leap, 5" reposition, 8" move w/ 2" reach into my caster and my gun line. He does some damage, but only because he made several critical activation and spell errors. If he hadn't, he would have obliterated my gun line. I mop up and we close out the game. He won via scenario.
MVP? Chargers as a whole, were quite murderous on the battlefield if left alone.
Notable Mentions? Impact attacks with Ironclads are great!
So, from all this I learned...playing an all melee army is so easy. Just move models forward, roll dice, and forget, next turn. But, that's me crying. lol So, I have two options, more guns or more melee. But, the bottom line is, I need to be more aggressive and kill the scary thing first. And, having units is nice for scenario - who knew! lol Blazers seem to be a shoe in for Kraye. So, I think I am going to stick with two lists and see what happens over time.
L1: Kraye w/ 6x Chargers + 2x Ironclad + Squire + Versh L2: Kraye w/ 6x Chargers + 2x3 Blazers + Versh
Thoughts?
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Post by supercancel on Apr 30, 2018 14:12:57 GMT
Well, not knowing what else you have... If you like the All Charger army, run it with either Nemo2 or Caine3 for the best feels.
Keeping Kraye, you need more heavies than you have... try Hammersmith/Centurions and a few chargers to apply feat with. He can do well with a defender if you really want to pursue the ranged game as Defenders still do decent work in melee.
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Post by redsololobo on Apr 30, 2018 19:25:42 GMT
I have a good amount of models; however, a lot of them are being painted right now.
What does 2Nemo offer for Chargers? I've read his card and nothing jumped out at me.
I have 3Caine in the works right now. So far, I have him pegged for best Charger caster with his one turn "synergy" feat.
From what I can infer, are you are telling me that heavy jack impact attacks is where I should focus? I've never explored that option.
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Post by supercancel on Apr 30, 2018 20:38:29 GMT
Heavy Jack impact attacks are way better than light impact attacks, yes, but really it's the Repo 5 on a Heavy that makes Kraye super awesome. Centurions can trample 7, repo 5 for 12" move, which is 4" more than it can run, and be unchargeable at the end of that.
Nemo2 charger spam basically is Nemo being able to cast an almighty awesome amount of spells because he blows his stack, gives focus out to the jacks, then sucks it back in to blow the stack again. Was more versatile in Mk 2 as I almost never here about it now.
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Post by Aegis on Apr 30, 2018 21:45:12 GMT
Heavy Jack impact attacks are way better than light impact attacks, yes, but really it's the Repo 5 on a Heavy that makes Kraye super awesome. Centurions can trample 7, repo 5 for 12" move, which is 4" more than it can run, and be unchargeable at the end of that. Nemo2 charger spam basically is Nemo being able to cast an almighty awesome amount of spells because he blows his stack, gives focus out to the jacks, then sucks it back in to blow the stack again. Was more versatile in Mk 2 as I almost never here about it now. Because sadly PP decided to nerf Nemo2 in the passage between MK2 and MK3, in fear that Power up would have been too good on him (being the king of big battlegroup casters in MK2 Cygnar), while probably he would have actually need a buff. Power Up made him comparatively worse, since now every caster can fuel a big battlegroup easier, so having a feat to fuel a big battlegroup isn't that great anymore. Both Nemo1 and Nemo3 can fuel a big battlegroups without problems, and over that they both have good spells to toy with. Nemo3 also happens to have a real feat, and that is why he was so strong that had to be nerfed. Nemo2 is a niceish caster, with the problem that there are multiple casters in faction that can do pretty much what he does, but better or with other things on the top. Also, Chargers now needing only 2 focus to get the maximum output made it "a waste" giving them 3 focuses. Casters that can buff their output, like Caine3, do much better now, since while in MK2 Chargers needed 3 focus each from the warcaster, now they need just 1 each (the other being Power Up), making easy for any caster to fuel them.
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Post by redsololobo on May 1, 2018 13:41:59 GMT
Ah, thanks for explaining this to me SuperCancel and Aegis.
Well, if Kraye and an all range jack list is not utilizing Kraye's best abilities, then does anyone have a steamroller list that better abuses what Kraye is good at?
I know I tried taking a whack at it, but I was just spamming Ironclads/Hammersmiths. I tried fitting in five defenders, but couldn't make the point cap. And, holy smokes Centurions are expensive.
Thoughts?
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on May 1, 2018 14:01:42 GMT
Aegis I feel all Nemo 2 needs to see a lot more play is a small bump in Warjack Points, I have no idea why he only has 26, yet another completely arbitrary decision from PP, things like that really make me question their competence as Devs
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Post by supercancel on May 1, 2018 14:37:12 GMT
I personally like Kraye in SotT best. Black 13 and Falk or Arcane tempest + CA gives a free model by themselves and then you run some Centurions (2 - 3 for me but season as you will) with Stormclads/Ironclads/Hammersmiths depending on what you like. I like letting the Gun mage stuff take care of solos, support and using the jacks to crash into infantry/Jacks and murder them. Ragman doesn't work as well I find with him as it is so hard for him to keep up with the jacks, however Aiyana and Holt cost 12 so... damage boosting is hard to come by.
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Post by redsololobo on May 1, 2018 15:16:42 GMT
Well I have three Cents being painted right now along with three Ironclads and Defenders. I'll ask my buddy to bring them this weekend for some all melee play time and see what all the "fuss" is about. lol
Here is what I will try out:
Kraye w/ 3x Centurions + 2x Ironclads + Mechanics (min) + Squire and Strangeways
Hopefully I don't get assonated after one battlegroup impact attack into enemy front lines. lol
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Post by supercancel on May 1, 2018 16:17:15 GMT
Don't get tied up, save Focus for Polarity field... even better PF before anything else so you can't forget! Reposition 5 is incredibly awesome!
Looking at your list... you need something other than Kraye to help him apply the feat bonus... maybe drop the 2nd Ironclad for a charger and... 2nd min Mechanics?
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Post by redsololobo on May 2, 2018 13:05:39 GMT
Hmmm...Well, I personally think his Feat is severally lack luster, but I can change up the list.
How about Kraye w/ 3x Cents + 3x Chargers?
This way if I ever see the need of using his Feat I could. But, what would help me is understanding how Impact Attacks work. They seem to be very similar to Trample but I loose Reach. So, why would I prefer Impact Attacks over Trample. I still get the Reposition post Trample.
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Post by supercancel on May 2, 2018 18:05:46 GMT
You can repo after a charge and Impact attacks as well, just don't fail it. The feat isn't mind boggling, though -2 def is really nice, it's more that sometimes, a Free charge (one more bought attack) with +2" distance is the distance between winning and losing. (see what I did there... the distance... )
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Post by redsololobo on May 2, 2018 18:07:31 GMT
I did! lol I guess its those little things that can mean winning or loosing.
What about impact attack vs trample action...why impact over trample?
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Post by supercancel on May 2, 2018 18:26:28 GMT
They are basically the same, except on an impact attack, if you fail to kill a model that you clip during your move, your movement ends... so I usually think of an impact attack as an extra POW 12 on the model you are charging that might also hit a model or two close to your charge target, which is easy with a large base. This gives you the benefit of getting the boosted charge attack (cav benefit that cents love... fish for that crit sustained attack!) and charge attack damage roles on your main target.
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