Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
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Post by Xintas on Apr 23, 2018 12:52:21 GMT
With just the HACs and one or two units of TACs, it doesn't seem like two Siege Crawlers are necessary. I understand that AoEs + Durgen = good, but it seems like 18 points that could probably be better spent.
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crow
Junior Strategist
Posts: 310
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Post by crow on Apr 23, 2018 15:57:22 GMT
The double siege crawler was because I was thinking that the highshields would need a TON of recursion if they were to stay relevant... turns out that double siege crawler doesn’t even help that. After double Siege Crawler, EB (which was what I was trying to test), and the high shields (which I think I was hopping that primed might help them stay relevant (it didn’t, and I was REALLY tired)) I had 14 points left. Figured the extra recursion might support TAC too, which they did more effectively then the high shields.
Long story short, highshields still stink, Durgen is meh at best, and the EB isn’t actually that bad with Durgen, but not really good enough to make up for the rest of Durgen’s downfalls.
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Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
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Post by Xintas on Apr 23, 2018 18:12:39 GMT
Crow: doing Morrow's work. Testing out our long held biases.
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Post by tryntius on Apr 23, 2018 20:12:55 GMT
How bout dis? Primed on Pirates with gang and overtake really helps the wedge in place and blow up and the rest of the army also blows everything up.
War Room Army
Mercenary - Splosions
Theme: The Irregulars 4 / 4 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Durgen Madhammer - WJ: +29 - Reinholdt, Gobber Speculator - PC: 4 - Ghordson Earthbreaker - PC: 38 (Battlegroup Points Used: 29) - Ghordson Avalancher - PC: 17
Gastone Crosse - PC: 0 - Mule - PC: 15 Eiryss, Mage Hunter of Ios - PC: 0 Lord Rockbottom - PC: 0 Thor Steinhammer - PC: 0
Lady Aiyana & Master Holt - Lady Aiyana & Master Holt: 8 Sea Dog Pirates - Leader & 9 Grunts: 13 - Mr. Walls, the Quartermaster - PC: 4 Herne & Jonne - Herne & Jonne: 5
THEME: The Irregulars ---
GENERATED : 04/23/2018 16:11:53 BUILD ID : 2061.18-02-21
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Choco
Junior Strategist
Gorten, best feet in the game.
Posts: 571
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Post by Choco on Apr 23, 2018 22:14:04 GMT
I kinda find it interesting how this thread started out at a "Let's figure out how to make the Earthbreaker work" thread, but has now added Durgen into this project. Now we are trying to figure out Durgen and the Earthbreaker at the same time.
To be honest here, I have run it with all three casters and each of them help it greatly. Between his feat, FFE, and Snipe on Ossrum, SoG and Rock Wall on Gorten, and Redline and that feat on Durgen, we have great jack buffs/support. If we look at each one of those individually, I feel that Redline is the best overall support we can give the Earthbreaker. Yes, when you look at the complete package that each caster brings, Durgen isn't the best choice. I do think that he has game with the Earthbreaker, we just need to finesse it more than usual. Durgen is more of a passive caster that take opportune shots here and there while providing minor advantages to a few models each turn. Being at work, I can't get really in depth or really take a lot of time thinking about all of this, but I want him to work here.
The biggest hurdle is figuring out exactly what the right models are that work with him. The Earthbreaker I think takes Redline the best out of all our jacks. Risen, Nyss, Kayazy (both types) and to an extent Hammer Dwarves take Primed really well. Force Field is just a good spell (in the right situation). I guess the more I look at his card, the more I want his feat to be an additional die, not boosted dice. I would love to test him out with just that change to him and see where it goes.
When I get home or something, I'll be able to really sit down and look at his options.
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on Apr 24, 2018 0:33:45 GMT
i aldreddy splained how to use it what else u wan know?
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Post by onijet01 on Apr 24, 2018 14:07:59 GMT
Earthbreaker works with each of our Rhulic Warcaster. Yet the benifits that each Warcaster brings is diffrent.
Durgen 1 by large margis the worst caster to run Earthbreaker with. 1. His "Redline" spell is the slowest speedboost the Rhulics have and damages the collossal. (But it can give out multiple turns of speed increase) 2. His feat and feild martial only ever affects 2 attacks a round on the Earthbreaker. Which is abysmal as they are range 10. 3. Those are all he does for Earthbreaker forcing you to use other models to assist.
Ossrum 1 is a great choice for the Earthbreaker as he brings some powerful benifits. 1. Due to it being a Rhulic model, Earthbreaker can move through other Rhulic models. (Base restrictions apply) 2. He brings Snipe as a range and threat extender to ALL guns on the Earthbreaker. 3. Unstoppable Force can free the earthbreaker up from melee if needed or used to push the collossal deeper onto enemy lines. 4. Fire for Effect like Steignhammer 1's tune up applies full boosts to the models first ranged attack. (Tune Up is to next basoc attack) 5. Brings a +3 Speed and Armor Increase feat to the model (pathfinder is irrelivent on the Earthbreaker)
Gorten 1 is also a solid choice for the earthbreaker for several great reasons as well. 1. Rock Wall spell can be used to block some lanes of engagement to the collossal increasing the chances of it surviving. 2. Solid Ground helps the collossal avoid blast damage. (This has a president vs some lists. Behemoth with a J.M. and Vlad 1 as exmple) 3. Strength of Granite makes the Earthbreaker tied as the hardest hitting melee in the game at P+S 25 (before faction armor fixes apply) 4. Gorten brings the greatest (riskiest) threat extention to the Earthbreaker in game with his feat able to pull enemy models up to 8 inches towards the collossal before it activates.
Universal support to the Earthbreaker in Rhulic. Steignhammer 1. Repair and Tune Up (good for next attack beat on melee) Herne 1 artilerist +2 rat for next aoe attack. (Great with Durgons Fire for Effect or Snipe) Ogrum Bokor used to place blast damage onto Earthbreaker (or take high pow shots saving the model)
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joedj
Junior Strategist
Posts: 513
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Post by joedj on Apr 29, 2018 15:45:12 GMT
If Durgen's Primed did not RFP, but only destroyed, Battle Engine/Highshields, or whatever recursion would be a thing. Also, fluff wise, aren't dwarf infantry jumping out the sides of the BE? So they are DIFFERENT warriors, not the ones that got blown up! #clowncar A steady supply of Primed fodder would help scrape things off my Earthbreaker, like a car wash, only of dwarven blood
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on Apr 29, 2018 20:19:17 GMT
we already aksed for add to unit instead of return in the battle engine cid. dey didn do it
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joedj
Junior Strategist
Posts: 513
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Post by joedj on Apr 30, 2018 0:07:38 GMT
we already aksed for add to unit instead of return in the battle engine cid. dey didn do it I just gotta be patient for the Durgen, Highshields, and OAC inclusive CID to adjust Primed .
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Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
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Post by Xintas on Apr 30, 2018 13:22:47 GMT
From a fluff perspective, it makes sense that new guys jump out (Siege Crawler = gun platform + APC), but from a gameplay perspective, I actually think return to play is more balanced. Add to unit would be too strong IMO, precisely because of Primed and similar effects.
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joedj
Junior Strategist
Posts: 513
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Post by joedj on May 1, 2018 20:42:36 GMT
In a (most often) 3-4 turn 75pt scenario-inclusive game, where turn 1 does not allow adding to a unit, 2x d3 additions to a unit per round may be strong, but too strong? Especially with the full turn penalty on delivering an active combat/destructive presence. Tough w/ Steady/No Sleeping in many ways is better.
We've playtested this. Dark Host showed how 'RANGED model' recur w/ LARGE ARM debuff swings is too strong. Recur of FAR FLUNG models may also be too strong (Testament, etal). Goreshade1 feat demonstrates one end of the 'add to a unit' consideration (well, add a whole unit!). Asphyxious2 (pre-nerf) feat demonstrated another (bad) side of recur/immediate activate mechanic.
Slow SPD warriors, cruddy ranged option (HS), addition near Battle Engine, and 'in formation' requirement all appear to conspire to ensure that Rhulic recur/addition would remain the miniscule threat that dwarves are known for
Perhaps Primed might then become dreaded? If so, that would be a tectonic shift for Durgen.
Also painting a bullseye on the BE(s), thereby alleviating the pressure on the Earthbreaker!! #backtotopic
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on May 1, 2018 21:45:19 GMT
sum folks have a funky definition of too strong``~
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Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
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Post by Xintas on May 2, 2018 14:27:36 GMT
sum folks have a funky definition of too strong``~ We're not speaking in a vacuum. We're also speaking about a 40 box arm 20 weapons platform that can remove stealth and has 3 initial guns all for the cost of a character jack. Making it literally spawn new guys and remove the downside of some of our most potent spells (in theme no less) would seriously call into question that point cost.
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on May 2, 2018 18:14:35 GMT
sum folks have a funky definition of too strong``~ We're not speaking in a vacuum. We're also speaking about a 40 box arm 20 weapons platform that can remove stealth and has 3 initial guns all for the cost of a character jack. Making it literally spawn new guys and remove the downside of some of our most potent spells (in theme no less) would seriously call into question that point cost. don't tell me where i can't speak!
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