luckgod84
Junior Strategist
Cygnar blogger
Posts: 163
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Post by luckgod84 on Apr 18, 2018 20:15:38 GMT
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xadmar
Junior Strategist
Posts: 173
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Post by xadmar on Apr 18, 2018 20:43:28 GMT
Good write up. I have a buddy who is loving them in SoT. Checked out a few of your tactics and saw one with Brun and Lug from 2016. Still using them at all?
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Post by geo67 on Apr 18, 2018 20:48:59 GMT
Thanks. Nice article. One of my go to's in MK2, haven't used them much in MK3
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Post by Aegis on Apr 18, 2018 22:05:19 GMT
Nice write up.
I think Tempest Blazers have been undervalued during MK3, due to the competition with StormLances at the beginning of MK3 where they were overshadowed, but now that ThemeMachine is here, we shouldn't forget that they are our old dear Murder Ponies with just 1 less DEF. They were fantastic in MK2, and they are still pretty good in MK3.
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Post by droopingpuppy on Apr 19, 2018 4:02:31 GMT
Good writeup!
Their only problem is they can't do anything against armor. Other than that they are still one of the top ranked unit in the game. You don't need them all the times but if your most of stuffs are only good at deal with small but hard targets they are worth considering.
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luckgod84
Junior Strategist
Cygnar blogger
Posts: 163
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Post by luckgod84 on Apr 19, 2018 7:06:03 GMT
Good write up. I have a buddy who is loving them in SoT. Checked out a few of your tactics and saw one with Brun and Lug from 2016. Still using them at all? I wrote the Brun & Lug article before themes became a thing. I actually used them in a tournament a week or so ago I made batreps for them if you are interested Siege1 (character couple combo) vs Kaelyssa (Defenders) www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnU-kknNsKE&t=2sSiege1 (character couple combo) vs Zerkova1 (Legion of steel) www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jw9ite4UIu8&t=4s
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Post by darkangeldentist on Apr 19, 2018 13:25:09 GMT
Nice write up and you covered everything I would consider necessary for a summary of them. I do have a couple of niche (I mean really niche) little things to add though.
Blessed is a relevant option when facing opponents who can stack magical buffs. Cygnar are the most common example thanks to a couple of casters who have deceleration (2+ ARM for everything in control range) which stacks with arcane shield (providing a cumulative +5 ARM bonus) at which point the advantage of blessed overtakes the potential from brutal damage. Skorne also count here with spells such as blur and defenders ward and animi like spiny growth and the krea aura.
Stryker 3 has a cute synergy with them for impact attacks on his feat turn. If Blazers charge on Stykers feat turn, impact attacks auto-hit and gain an additional dice damage giving them a surprisingly relevant charge.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Apr 19, 2018 13:28:43 GMT
Nice write up and you covered everything I would consider necessary for a summary of them. I do have a couple of niche (I mean really niche) little things to add though. Blessed is a relevant option when facing opponents who can stack magical buffs. Cygnar are the most common example thanks to a couple of casters who have deceleration (2+ ARM for everything in control range) which stacks with arcane shield (providing a cumulative +5 ARM bonus) at which point the advantage of blessed overtakes the potential from brutal damage. Skorne also count here with spells such as blur and defenders ward and animi like spiny growth and the krea aura. Stryker 3 has a cute synergy with them for impact attacks on his feat turn. If Blazers charge on Stykers feat turn, impact attacks auto-hit and gain an additional dice damage giving them a surprisingly relevant charge. Am I right in thinking that because Blazers have Gunfighter and not Dual Attack, if they make an impact attack they then cannot shoot? as they cannot make Ranged and Melee attacks in the same activation.
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Post by streetpizza on Apr 19, 2018 13:38:10 GMT
Gun fighter means that they can make an attack against their charge target. It just won't be boosted damage or boosted to hit.
If your charge target dies from impact and you're not in melee with anybody else I think you forfeit the attack.
I could also be very wrong but that's how I've played it.
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Post by darkangeldentist on Apr 19, 2018 14:09:50 GMT
Am I right in thinking that because Blazers have Gunfighter and not Dual Attack, if they make an impact attack they then cannot shoot? as they cannot make Ranged and Melee attacks in the same activation. To be honest I'm not entirely sure on the rules interactions here but yes, a model cannot normally make ranged and melee attacks in the same activation unless they have a specific rule to allow them to do so. Blazers don't so by making impact attacks I believe that commits them to melee attacks only. (Since their only melee weapon is the mount this also means they wouldn't get a charge attack either.) However if a model makes impact attacks and kills the charge target with an impact attack the charge is still considered successful. This means that if you impact attack and kill the model you declared a charge against with it, you will still get to reposition afterwards. To re-iterate the original point though, my understanding is that if you decide to make impact attacks with blazers, that is all they will be doing that turn.
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Post by streetpizza on Apr 19, 2018 14:25:18 GMT
Pulled this one off the rules forum
"A model with the Gunfighter advantage can make charges. If it makes a charge, the model can make its initial attacks with its ranged weapons, but these attacks can target only models in its melee range. The charging gunfighter’s first melee or ranged attack after ending its charge movement must target the model it charged. If the charging gunfighter did not fail its charge and cannot make its first melee or ranged attack against the charge target, the charging gunfighter can make its first attack against any eligible target. Remember, your first attack after charging is a charge attack only if you make it with a melee weapon, and a model in melee cannot aim (p. 30)."
So you can charge with gunfighter and make your gunfighter attacks against anything in your melee range of 0.5" even if you kill your charge target with the impact attack. You cannot make an attack with the ranged weapon against anything outside of your melee range though and the gunfighter attack isn't boosted for any roles.
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chuggyg
Junior Strategist
Posts: 474
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Post by chuggyg on Apr 19, 2018 14:29:43 GMT
Also keep in mind that impact attacks happen during movement and not the combat action, and the melee/ranged attacks thing specifies combat action.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Apr 19, 2018 14:33:05 GMT
streetpizza just had a butchers at the rules online, and the last line of Gunfighter (p52) states:
'Gunfighter does not allow a model to make melee and ranged attacks during the same activation.'
So I am pretty sure now that if you make an impact attack, as it is a melee attack, you then cannot make your charge attack with the gun, as it is still a ranged attack, and they don't have a rule that lets them do both i.e. Dual Attack.
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Post by darkangeldentist on Apr 19, 2018 14:33:58 GMT
Pulled this one off the rules forum "A model with the Gunfighter advantage can make charges. If it makes a charge, the model can make its initial attacks with its ranged weapons, but these attacks can target only models in its melee range. The charging gunfighter’s first melee or ranged attack after ending its charge movement must target the model it charged. If the charging gunfighter did not fail its charge and cannot make its first melee or ranged attack against the charge target, the charging gunfighter can make its first attack against any eligible target. Remember, your first attack after charging is a charge attack only if you make it with a melee weapon, and a model in melee cannot aim (p. 30)." So you can charge with gunfighter and make your gunfighter attacks against anything in your melee range of 0.5" even if you kill your charge target with the impact attack. You cannot make an attack with the ranged weapon against anything outside of your melee range though and the gunfighter attack isn't boosted for any roles. Thanks streetpizza but although relevant for the general question about gunfighter attacks the main question is about the conflict between melee and ranged attacks. Gunfighter attacks are still ranged attacks and the main issue in this specific instance is that impact attacks are melee attacks. To put it another way, my understanding is that if a blazer wishes to make a gunfighter charge attack then it cannot make impact attacks because a model cannot make both ranged and melee attacks in the same activation unless it has a rule like dual attack which specifically allows it to.
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Post by supercancel on Apr 19, 2018 14:38:08 GMT
All this means to me is that Blazers should have Dual Attack...
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